How Can Fury Call Himself An ATG Heavyweight When He’s Not Even The Greatest Heavyweight Now????

[Thomastearns]

This video from Ring Magazine's Michael Montero seems to puts Tyson Fury's all time standing into an historical perspective.

The most pertinent facts appear around the 18 minute mark.

Here's another conspiracy theory for you lot.

Montero is not going to admit to this, but the Ring are a big part of the problem he is complaining about. In fact I suspect a lot of American journalists have not been calling it down the middle when it came to the heavyweight scene since 2015.

the Ring want to declare Wlad v Chagaev (#1 v #3) the start of a new lineage.
TBRB want to declare Wlad v Povetkin (#1 v #2) the start of a new lineage.
That's fine, and we should recognize Fury won that title to become lineal champion in 2015. However, as Montero points out Fury was out of the picture since October 2016. And that is where the problems start.

The Ring were reluctant to strip Fury (the double standard Montero talks about). TBRB had no such problem.

But this is where the general problem with the journalistic class comes in, they all apply double standards then pretend their shit doesn't stink. Especially, in America (I mean it is hardly world news that America's journalists lack integrity and will push obviously biased narratives)

The Ring - rankings brought to you by American journalists
Montero who is connected with the ring complains how there were two leagues, with the stronger one being that involving Joshua, but then glosses over the fact that the Ring ignored a 3-belt champion in Andy Ruiz Jr. so that they could get the Ring championship back in play when Wilder fought Fury. smh.
If they are going to do that, they should have put the Ring title on the line when Klitschko v Joshua fought in 2017. But they chose not to...

The TBRB - rankings brought to you by a hugely dominant American journalist voting block
Same issue.
>>TBRB remove Fury from their rankings in October 2016 (test failure due to cocaine, and his retirement).
>>TBRB rankings November 2016 - Klitschko is their #1.
>>>>Joshua fights Molina on December 10th, and the the Klitschko v Joshua fight is officially announced.
So what do TBRB do?
>>TBRB rankings December 13th, 2016 - they move Joshua #2, Povetkin #1 and drop Klitschko from their rankings. smh
>>TBRB rankings April 11th, 2017 - Joshua #1, Ortiz #2
>>>>Joshua v Klitschko fight happens 29th April.
>>TBRB rankings May 9th, 2017 - Joshua #1, Klitschko #2
It's clear that fight should have elevated Joshua to TBRB champion if they were playing it down the line. So why didn't they?

PBO ratings - an actual independent body using an algorithm
>> When Joshua fought Klitschko, Klitschko was ranked #1.

The Americans are desperate to keep control of any and all narratives surrounding the heavyweight division. Montero can complain, but his magazine is knee deep in the chaos. They ignored Klitschko v Joshua, then they ignored Andy Ruiz Jr. who was holding 3 of the belts, to create a new lineage? Absolute codswallop.

You either recognize Fury never lost the lineage, or he was stripped and we don't actually have a lineal champion at present. Pick your poison.

"You either recognize Fury never lost the lineage, or he was stripped and we don't actually have a lineal champion at present. Pick your poison."


I'd take the latter.
We need AJ v Usyk 2 to settle it for good.

If Fury is really retired then he ought to be stripped immediately as there are plenty of worthy candidates just waiting for their chance.

If, as many suspect, he's not really retired then he can fight the winner.

It's up to him, but not even the fork tongued Fury should have it both ways.

[DrDuke]

We have to take into consideration the stage of a fighter's career as well as his opponents.

Holyfield was shot by the time he fought Byrd. That fight means nothing.

Byrd was a good fighter, not a great one. Beating a prime Byrd is more impressive than anything Fury has done.
Beating an ancient Wladimir Klitschko doesn't mean anything. That people even bring it up show how desperate they are to come up with something. After that, he beat Wilder, a hard puncher with little other ability. After that there is next to nothing.

It's absolutely clear, that you haven't even watched about last 8-10 years of Klit's career to consider such stuff. So, your effort to make sense doesn't mean anything.

[Lackeos]

Beating an ancient Wladimir Klitschko doesn't mean anything.

Wrong again.

[Ambling Alp II]

Well it does count as a win on his official record, so there is that.

[Loki]

Acctually you are the idiot. It should be obvious to anyone that I am saying that one fight is comparable with the other not that the fighters are exactly the same. Fury is much better than Vitali was and Usyk is alot better than Adamek was yet their encounter will only prove the same thing that Vit vs Ada did that size really does matter.

No. Fury isn’t better than a prime Vitali and Usyk is 100 times better than Adamek. Just an awful piece of analysis dude.

Vitalis biggest achievements are beating Adamek, getting slaughtered by Lewis, defeating Chisora in a competitive fight and losing to Chris Byrd while refusing to give Fury his rightfully earned fight.

Compare that to Fury's achievements and Fury's best win has to be vs lik Klitschko. Never got slaughtered by nobody, absolutely dominated Chisora before Vit got his hands on him and koed him afterwards and never had an embarrassing loss vs someone like Chris Byrd.

It sounds to me like you are rating Usyk as highly as one would a prime Tyson, Ali or Lewis. That's not an easy thing to do considering his achievements so far at HW.

So.... you are basing your opinions on Vitali and Usyk being slavic Ukrainians and maybe you share their nationality or ethnicity and have this need to believe that your people are the best and that's just perfectly fine.

I’m British dude. Go to sleep, your analysis is shit. Lewis slaughtered Vitali? He was behind on the cards and Lewis retired after - I’m a Lewis fan BTW.

The Klitschko era was so dominant, the unfortunate issue is the best two of that era never fought.

[H8Usernames]

No. Fury isn’t better than a prime Vitali and Usyk is 100 times better than Adamek. Just an awful piece of analysis dude.

Vitalis biggest achievements are beating Adamek, getting slaughtered by Lewis, defeating Chisora in a competitive fight and losing to Chris Byrd while refusing to give Fury his rightfully earned fight.

Compare that to Fury's achievements and Fury's best win has to be vs lik Klitschko. Never got slaughtered by nobody, absolutely dominated Chisora before Vit got his hands on him and koed him afterwards and never had an embarrassing loss vs someone like Chris Byrd.

It sounds to me like you are rating Usyk as highly as one would a prime Tyson, Ali or Lewis. That's not an easy thing to do considering his achievements so far at HW.

So.... you are basing your opinions on Vitali and Usyk being slavic Ukrainians and maybe you share their nationality or ethnicity and have this need to believe that your people are the best and that's just perfectly fine.

I’m British dude. Go to sleep, your analysis is shit. Lewis slaughtered Vitali? He was behind on the cards and Lewis retired after - I’m a Lewis fan BTW.

The Klitschko era was so dominant, the unfortunate issue is the best two of that era never fought.

Remove the rose colored glasses and then rewatch Lewis vs Klit. Or maybe you are not man enough to admit that you are wrong?

A dominant era with the two dominant dudes ducking Fury and Valuev? It was a joke.

[skanksta]

Yes, he can.

[gilgamesh]

He can call himself an ATG the same way Floyd can call himself The Best Ever

It's just words. Fighters hype themselves. They talk about themselves as if they are the f*cking sh*t because you don't achieve what they achieved unless you feel that way about yourself and what you do.

Don't get too hung up on it.

[H8Usernames]

He can call himself an ATG the same way Floyd can call himself The Best Ever

It's just words. Fighters hype themselves. They talk about themselves as if they are the f*cking sh*t because you don't achieve what they achieved unless you feel that way about yourself and what you do.

Don't get too hung up on it.

Where would you rate Fury in atg terms in the context of achievement and ability?

For me any top 10 atg list based on ability that doesn't have Fury on it is a joke. As for achievement, that's a tougher one.

Fellows that do belong higher on such a list:
1 ali
2 ll
3 holy
4 tyson
5 l holmes
6 a case could be made for wlad
7 a case could be made for big George
8 case for joe fraiz3r
9 and 10 possibly many of the oldtimer

Then again a case can be made for Fury to be on that list, Wladdy and Wilder possibly rank very highly on ability and Dillian Whyte shouldn't be too low on such a list either, defeating such fighters so convincingly could be considered achievements.

[gilgamesh]

I pretty much only look at achievement. Because me thinking you have more ability than so and so, and you achieving the same thing isn't the same.

That being said. Fury has definitely made himself a marketable figure that people talk about, and wanna see what he does. He'll continue to piss fans off, but keep 'em talking for a while to come.

[Syntax Error]

Why is it that fight fans only seem to get exercised about the linear champion with heavyweights?

Does anybody know or care who the linear featherweight champion is, for example?

I get the point of it, but all I can say is that the lineage has been broken so many times that it's hardly worth worrying nowadays.

Tyson Fury particularly shouldn't be waffling about it, because he himself further broke it by disappearing for three years, then returning and announcing himself as the so-called linear champion.