Which glorified British amateur ended up being the biggest underachiever in the professional ring

[Controversial]

Hardly any UFC fighters or boxers have exemptions, so it’s all rule breaking stuff. You can’t legally get testosterone without a prescription from a doctor, and certainly not in the amounts these athletes want even with a prescription.

Aye, but even if you are prescribed testosterone, there are limits... Lamont Peterson was twice over the average when he was tested for his 2nd fight with Khan... And his defence was "well I've been taking it all the way through, and there was never any problems then"...

I think I recall Nigel Benn slipping up in a TV interview once, kind of eluding to just how many 'supplements' he was on in preparation for his fights. It sounded like he was getting dosed with all sorts, to the point where he sounded like it was all getting to be a nuisance.

I think I remember that, they were showing him training in Tenerife and it showed him pouring a load of vitamins into his hand and swallowing them

[polecateddy]

Hardly any UFC fighters or boxers have exemptions, so it’s all rule breaking stuff. You can’t legally get testosterone without a prescription from a doctor, and certainly not in the amounts these athletes want even with a prescription.

Aye, but even if you are prescribed testosterone, there are limits... Lamont Peterson was twice over the average when he was tested for his 2nd fight with Khan... And his defence was "well I've been taking it all the way through, and there was never any problems then"...

Shannon Briggs had high testosterone levels in 2017, he admitted taking stuff but said it was for asthma, I wonder how many fighters take it but it falls below the accepted levels

There's been a few sports people caught lately with drugs I've not really heard of before. The British sprinter, CJ Ujah got pinged with Osterine, a well known SARM and S-23, another SARM but not one I've heard of before. He's gone for the bog standard defence of 'it was in my whey protein' or something similar. And the 15 year old Russian figure skater, Kamila Valieva, pinged at recent Winter Olympics taking another new one - Trimetazidine - which apparently improves cadio vascular ability. She had a cracking excuse - it was in her granddad's medication, and she must have shared a glass with him and ingested some saliva. Couldn't make it up!

[coghaugen11]

Dean Pithie?

[Coco]

Dean Pithie?

Not a bad call but was well over hyped due to a controversial decision over Naz when they were 14

[polecateddy]

Bunce always raved about Matthew Thirlwall, but he seemed under-motivated and under-powered as a pro. His career was a complete wash out.

[Coco]

Bunce always raved about Matthew Thirlwall, but he seemed under-motivated and under-powered as a pro. His career was a complete wash out.

Thirwell was a part of the BBC comeback into boxing where Bunce was the cheerleader

[JamesPhilips]

Bunce always raved about Matthew Thirlwall, but he seemed under-motivated and under-powered as a pro. His career was a complete wash out.

Rumours are the velvet pouch ruined him. He was highly rated

[margaret thatcher]

on the irish side, quigley was rated as a super talent after his world silver + 2x euro champ + many other titles am career, got signed by golden boy when they were still big time, saw plenty of talk about him beating high ranked middleweights.... but ended up pretty disappointing once the opponents got a pulse

never seemed out of shape or off the rails or anything, but lacked hardness and strength, which is a common thing with the am stars who dont do as much as expected as pros

[bennie]

Rod Douglas another though tragically (who throws a 13-fight novice in with Bomber Graham - who had just arguably beat McCallum for the world title - Mickey Duff of all people WTF!?)

Couldn't agree more. Did that fight make sense to anybody? bennie, what do you think?

I was not surprised when it happened in 1989. Mickey Duff had 'moved' Michael Watson to a big win over Nigel Benn earlier in the year and Douglas, who won and lost to Benn in the amateurs, probably demanded a similar move. Yes, he was only 13-0 in the pros but in the unpaid ranks he won four ABA titles, gold at the Commonwealth Games in Edinburgh 1986, outboxing and outpointing Aussie Jeff Harding in the final, and also reached the quarter-finals of the Olympics in 1984, where he was eliminated by Canadian amateur great Shawn O'Sullivan. Graham, now 30, was coming off a gruelling, heartbreaking defeat to Mike McCallum for the world title and experiencing serious managerial issues with Barney Eastwood, who wanted Brendan Ingle out of the way for his Panamanian trainers.
It seemed a good time to challenge Graham but Duff got this one wrong and badly wrong. Personally, I would cross a minefield to avoid a Herol Graham fight but I watched it on Sportsnight and after a competitive start, the slippery Graham sat down on his punches and stopped Douglas in the ninth round (from memory) but it didn't rank as the kind of bruising, draining defeat that shortens a fighter's career. In fact, Douglas gains from the defeat. Sadly, he never got the chance to bounce back.

[mickey1975]

I was at the fight. 13 year old.

[coghaugen11]

Douglas was unlucky to lose to O’Sullivan in LA 84, I think it was the quarter. O’Sullivan was world #1 at the time after beating Frank Tate a few times (Tate beat O’Sullivan in the final). It could’ve gone either way, I thought Rod just nipped it.

[rhino222]

Bunce always raved about Matthew Thirlwall, but he seemed under-motivated and under-powered as a pro. His career was a complete wash out.

Rumours are the velvet pouch ruined him. He was highly rated

His best achievement with his fists was twatting John Terry outside a nightclub (allegedly) where Thirlwalls brother was a doorman. Somehow Matt got away with it.

[Deserter]

Bunce always raved about Matthew Thirlwall, but he seemed under-motivated and under-powered as a pro. His career was a complete wash out.

Rumours are the velvet pouch ruined him. He was highly rated

His best achievement with his fists was twatting John Terry outside a nightclub (allegedly) where Thirlwalls brother was a doorman. Somehow Matt got away with it.

Yep that was the first thing that sprang to mind when I saw his name crop up! Good call though, as think Thirwell was a real banger in the ams and not just beating but stopping a lot of talented guys, if my memory serves me correctly. Couldn't carry it over to the pros at all, for whatever reason.
Just found this on the Terry incident:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-10065397.html

[margaret thatcher]

not very familialr with thirwell's career. did he get into trouble or something at the end. looks like he retired after getting one of his best wins, which is rarely the case

[Crease]

I think I recall Nigel Benn slipping up in a TV interview once, kind of eluding to just how many 'supplements' he was on in preparation for his fights. It sounded like he was getting dosed with all sorts, to the point where he sounded like it was all getting to be a nuisance.

Well "supplements" can be multi-vitamins, protein, fibre, calcium - all that good stuff which is not illegal..

It all just depends on what exactly it was... And how much of it.

[coghaugen11]

Douglas was unlucky to lose to O’Sullivan in LA 84, I think it was the quarter. O’Sullivan was world #1 at the time after beating Frank Tate a few times (Tate beat O’Sullivan in the final). It could’ve gone either way, I thought Rod just nipped it.

Also, O’Sullivan was robbed against Tate in that final. Even Manny Steward (Frank’s trainer) suggested it.

[Old bones Ian]

Douglas was unlucky to lose to O’Sullivan in LA 84, I think it was the quarter. O’Sullivan was world #1 at the time after beating Frank Tate a few times (Tate beat O’Sullivan in the final). It could’ve gone either way, I thought Rod just nipped it.

Also, O’Sullivan was robbed against Tate in that final. Even Manny Steward (Frank’s trainer) suggested it.

O'Sullivan's management got it wrong for him putting Simon Brown in the away corner for O'Sullivan's 13th fight.

[polecateddy]

I think I recall Nigel Benn slipping up in a TV interview once, kind of eluding to just how many 'supplements' he was on in preparation for his fights. It sounded like he was getting dosed with all sorts, to the point where he sounded like it was all getting to be a nuisance.

Well "supplements" can be multi-vitamins, protein, fibre, calcium - all that good stuff which is not illegal..

It all just depends on what exactly it was... And how much of it.

I'm sure there was a fair bit of PED abuse, although it's unclear how scientific they were with it. Didn't he admit in his autobiography to regular cocaine use?

[jameswilson]

On the Northern Irish side as well Eamonn O’Kane.

[Delta Jay]

How much of this can we attribute to age? In British and Irish teams the Olympics and Worlds are contested by quite young lads, usually.

I’m not one to go on about Man Strength ( ) but I do think there’s tons of athletes in every sports who look very promising early on and never reach the heights. That factor, combined with the intense spotlight, might make it look worse than it is.

I suppose they’re two different sports at the end of the day. Nowadays they’re more similar with no head guards, 10 point must. Does that mean a medal will translate more accurately to pro success now?

[coghaugen11]

Dean Pithie?

Not a bad call but was well over hyped due to a controversial decision over Naz when they were 14

I seem to remember them being 15-16. And it not being controversial.

[coghaugen11]

Naz had yet to develop that ‘man strength’ though.

[wrighty]

I think if Audley stayed an amateur then we would see him in a totally different way. He won commonwealth gold in line 8 punches, had the two aba titles and the big one. I think by watching him fight, he had quite a bad anxiety disorder. I had general anxiety and the way he froze reminds me of myself a bit.

I remember a guy called Matthew Thirwall being hyped, he was a banger apparently, then he disappeared. Maybe some people just get tired of it.

Fair play to them all though. That all takes some doing.

[wrighty]

Iain Weaver did a lot but had some brain abnormality and ended up fighting in biba affiliated shows

[TheLeprechaun]

Re: Frankie Gavin

To the best of my knowledge Anthony Farnell's gym is clean i.e. no PEDS. That is a good thing and Anthony is a very good trainer. Some other gyms and other trainers aren't, which is a shame but a reality.

With a clean trainer, Frankie did not have the gumption to realise himself and had nobody to grab him by the scruff of the neck and explain to him that in order to get to the top and maximise his potential he would need to take PEDs. He looked undersized and underpowered at his weight in part because of his ill-discipline with food but the fact he was a clean fighter made an even bigger negative impact IMO.

People don't like to hear it, I know, but to get to the top of boxing (with a few exceptions e.g. Bellew, and matchmaking helped him) you need to be at the very least topping up your testosterone. Look at the physiques of the top lads in Frankie's weight division.

All in my opinion, of course...

Gear can't give you discipline. He missed weight at the Olympics. One look at his body throughout his career and you knew he should have been at 135 at the most. I just don't think he had that extra bit of discipline and drive in him. The kind of thing Ricky Burns had. Burns had a fraction of Frankies talent but by god did he make the most of it.