I assume most people who take testosterone for training purposes aren't getting that prescribed though. I agree that most people in their 40s who train hard aren't taking testosterone, only those looking to build muscle fast.
Nothing to do with building muscle fast. That’s absolute rubbish. What I notice in here is folk with zero experience of a situation make it up as they go along. I have direct experience and that’s why I commented.
So why do people who train hard inject testosterone?
You’d have to ask each individual rather than lumping them all together. From experience, strength gains, increased libido, recovery, injury prevention, endurance.
I know some guys who have recovered from severe depression using low dose testosterone.
Wee Tommy wrote: ↑03 Feb 2022, 09:34
I use a reputable endocrinologist. I understand the risks. There are a raft of benefits also if used wisely.
So an endocrinologist will prescribe it if you go private, even if you don't need it for health reasons?
Define health reasons?
If too low it can cause problems with depression, lethargy, tiredness, sex drive etc but I thought your levels needed to be quite low before they would even consider prescribing testosterone
Nothing to do with building muscle fast. That’s absolute rubbish. What I notice in here is folk with zero experience of a situation make it up as they go along. I have direct experience and that’s why I commented.
So why do people who train hard inject testosterone?
You’d have to ask each individual rather than lumping them all together. From experience, strength gains, increased libido, recovery, injury prevention, endurance.
I know some guys who have recovered from severe depression using low dose testosterone.
Not eveyone training hard is a bodybuilder.
Ok a sloppy generalisation on my part if others are injecting and not looking to bulk up but injecting to help their libido or depression is for a separate issue.
So why do people who train hard inject testosterone?
You’d have to ask each individual rather than lumping them all together. From experience, strength gains, increased libido, recovery, injury prevention, endurance.
I know some guys who have recovered from severe depression using low dose testosterone.
Not eveyone training hard is a bodybuilder.
Ok a sloppy generalisation on my part if others are injecting and not looking to bulk up but injecting to help their libido or depression is for a separate issue.
It’s a bit silly though. Just relying on Bro Science rather than anything a doctor would prescribe. And if they actually had a genuine low testosterone issue, which no doubt low libido and depression could be linked be linked into, cycling on and off some dodgy so-called testosterone sold at the back of a gym will ultimately make matters worse in the long run. People with actual properly diagnosed low testosterone will need proper, safe TRT treatment the rest of their lives. I don’t think it’s like a course of antibiotics to prep you up a bit. It doesn’t work like that, because you just crash as soon as you come off it. As an aside a drug agency in America once did quite an extensive sample of test of over 50 companies supplying Sarms. Over half didn’t even have Sarms in them. And the ones that did had dosages all wrong. Some even had steroids and not Sarms in them. So you can probably trust dodgy testosterone sold at the gym about as far as you can throw it!
polecateddy wrote: ↑04 Feb 2022, 05:22
It’s a bit silly though. Just relying on Bro Science rather than anything a doctor would prescribe. And if they actually had a genuine low testosterone issue, which no doubt low libido and depression could be linked be linked into, cycling on and off some dodgy so-called testosterone sold at the back of a gym will ultimately make matters worse in the long run. People with actual properly diagnosed low testosterone will need proper, safe TRT treatment the rest of their lives. I don’t think it’s like a course of antibiotics to prep you up a bit. It doesn’t work like that, because you just crash as soon as you come off it. So you can probably trust dodgy testosterone sold at the gym about as far as you can throw it!
I agree, I wouldn't want to risk harming myself long term just to be able to lift a heavier weight or get whatever gain they get from injecting stuff that some bloke in a gym sells. If someone suffers from genuine low testosterone then go the a GP and get it prescribed properly however from what I've read that's not always easy. Potential side affects of being on testosterone are an enlarged prostate and blood thickening so those prescribed it will be getting regular checks, others won't.
polecateddy wrote: ↑04 Feb 2022, 05:22
It’s a bit silly though. Just relying on Bro Science rather than anything a doctor would prescribe. And if they actually had a genuine low testosterone issue, which no doubt low libido and depression could be linked be linked into, cycling on and off some dodgy so-called testosterone sold at the back of a gym will ultimately make matters worse in the long run. People with actual properly diagnosed low testosterone will need proper, safe TRT treatment the rest of their lives. I don’t think it’s like a course of antibiotics to prep you up a bit. It doesn’t work like that, because you just crash as soon as you come off it. So you can probably trust dodgy testosterone sold at the gym about as far as you can throw it!
I agree, I wouldn't want to risk harming myself long term just to be able to lift a heavier weight or get whatever gain they get from injecting stuff that some bloke in a gym sells. If someone suffers from genuine low testosterone then go the a GP and get it prescribed properly however from what I've read that's not always easy.
The NHS threshold is set lower than it would be in some other countries. I think normal range is 350 to 950 or something like that. So if you are 351 (which is pretty low!) the NHS won’t prescribe. Private clinics would but it will then cost a chunk every month. Usually people will misdiagnose themselves with low testosterone through Dr Google, when often it can be something as simple as lack of rest. Or people get obsessed with anti-ageing and think just because they are 50 they have to have this. TRT isn’t totally safe. Go on it and there will be some negative side effects too, so you need proper medical monitoring. Often people report that their baseline blood pressure is that bit higher on it. Nothing comes for free!
Last edited by polecateddy on 04 Feb 2022, 06:18, edited 1 time in total.
polecateddy wrote: ↑04 Feb 2022, 06:13
The NHS threshold is set lower than it would be in some other countries. I think normal range is 350 to 950 or something like that. So if you are 351 (which is pretty low!) the NHS won’t prescribe. Private clinics would but it will then cost a chunk every month.
So would a private clinic prescribe even if you don't have low levels?
polecateddy wrote: ↑04 Feb 2022, 06:13
The NHS threshold is set lower than it would be in some other countries. I think normal range is 350 to 950 or something like that. So if you are 351 (which is pretty low!) the NHS won’t prescribe. Private clinics would but it will then cost a chunk every month.
So would a private clinic prescribe even if you don't have low levels?
I don’t know, but I believe they can justify prescribing it for a higher base level than the NHS does. But if you just have properly normal levels it wouldn’t be ethical.
polecateddy wrote: ↑04 Feb 2022, 06:13
The NHS threshold is set lower than it would be in some other countries. I think normal range is 350 to 950 or something like that. So if you are 351 (which is pretty low!) the NHS won’t prescribe. Private clinics would but it will then cost a chunk every month.
So would a private clinic prescribe even if you don't have low levels?
I don’t know, but I believe they can justify prescribing it for a higher base level than the NHS does. But if you just have properly normal levels it wouldn’t be ethical.
Thats what I thought and I wonder if you went and said you wanted it for training purposes if they would accept that, or only if your health/life is suffering
So would a private clinic prescribe even if you don't have low levels?
I don’t know, but I believe they can justify prescribing it for a higher base level than the NHS does. But if you just have properly normal levels it wouldn’t be ethical.
Thats what I thought and I wonder if you went and said you wanted it for training purposes if they would accept that, or only if your health/life is suffering
I think you have to be realistic about how much it would help with training. The normal level dose you would get okay cuts out the diurnal rhythm stuff if you are doing it a couple of times a week. Barring in mind a lot of clinics won’t have a clue and suggest getting an injection once a month, try and sell you a worthless gel or something that might be a bit pointless! But the dosage you would get prescribed is basically what a bodybuilder gets just to maintain what they have already gained going into middle age not to really build up. We aren’t talking super physiological doses here on some mad bulk, their aim would be to put you into the middle of that 350-950 range.
polecateddy wrote: ↑04 Feb 2022, 05:22
It’s a bit silly though. Just relying on Bro Science rather than anything a doctor would prescribe. And if they actually had a genuine low testosterone issue, which no doubt low libido and depression could be linked be linked into, cycling on and off some dodgy so-called testosterone sold at the back of a gym will ultimately make matters worse in the long run. People with actual properly diagnosed low testosterone will need proper, safe TRT treatment the rest of their lives. I don’t think it’s like a course of antibiotics to prep you up a bit. It doesn’t work like that, because you just crash as soon as you come off it. So you can probably trust dodgy testosterone sold at the gym about as far as you can throw it!
I agree, I wouldn't want to risk harming myself long term just to be able to lift a heavier weight or get whatever gain they get from injecting stuff that some bloke in a gym sells. If someone suffers from genuine low testosterone then go the a GP and get it prescribed properly however from what I've read that's not always easy.
The NHS threshold is set lower than it would be in some other countries. I think normal range is 350 to 950 or something like that. So if you are 351 (which is pretty low!) the NHS won’t prescribe. Private clinics would but it will then cost a chunk every month. Usually people will misdiagnose themselves with low testosterone through Dr Google, when often it can be something as simple as lack of rest. Or people get obsessed with anti-ageing and think just because they are 50 they have to have this. TRT isn’t totally safe. Go on it and there will be some negative side effects too, so you need proper medical monitoring. Often people report that their baseline blood pressure is that bit higher on it. Nothing comes for free!
This is an interesting thread as I've been struggling with low testosterone levels and depression probably for years and I'm still fairly young. I only figured out last year that testosterone was part of the issue through private blood tests because I tested several things, I knew there was something wrong.
As you say it's 350 lower limit, my last few tests over last few months have been 240 to to 270! Which is incredibly low for a man my age. The last one was 250 few weeks ago. My prolactin is very high though so that could be part of the issue. I've been trying supplements to improve things but so far it hasn't made any dent.
There was a hyper up herb recently called Fadogia Aggrestis recommended by Andrew Huberman. Difficult to get but I a got a month or 2. Done nothing for my test levels they actually decreased slightly.
It's difficult now I'm at a crossroads I don't really want to go on TRT at my age and I don't think the GP will do much either but not sure what to do now.
I agree, I wouldn't want to risk harming myself long term just to be able to lift a heavier weight or get whatever gain they get from injecting stuff that some bloke in a gym sells. If someone suffers from genuine low testosterone then go the a GP and get it prescribed properly however from what I've read that's not always easy.
The NHS threshold is set lower than it would be in some other countries. I think normal range is 350 to 950 or something like that. So if you are 351 (which is pretty low!) the NHS won’t prescribe. Private clinics would but it will then cost a chunk every month. Usually people will misdiagnose themselves with low testosterone through Dr Google, when often it can be something as simple as lack of rest. Or people get obsessed with anti-ageing and think just because they are 50 they have to have this. TRT isn’t totally safe. Go on it and there will be some negative side effects too, so you need proper medical monitoring. Often people report that their baseline blood pressure is that bit higher on it. Nothing comes for free!
This is an interesting thread as I've been struggling with low testosterone levels and depression probably for years and I'm still fairly young. I only figured out last year that testosterone was part of the issue through private blood tests because I tested several things, I knew there was something wrong.
As you say it's 350 lower limit, my last few tests over last few months have been 240 to to 270! Which is incredibly low for a man my age. The last one was 250 few weeks ago. My prolactin is very high though so that could be part of the issue. I've been trying supplements to improve things but so far it hasn't made any dent.
There was a hyper up herb recently called Fadogia Aggrestis recommended by Andrew Huberman. Difficult to get but I a got a month or 2. Done nothing for my test levels they actually decreased slightly.
It's difficult now I'm at a crossroads I don't really want to go on TRT at my age and I don't think the GP will do much either but not sure what to do now.
I’m guessing you didn’t do steroids as a teenager or something silly? With the rise of social media fitness influencers trying to stand out, taking steroids and Sarms at crazy young ages is becoming very common. Teenagers crashing their systems deliberately to get prescribed TRT, mainly in America though thankfully.
That aside, I wouldn’t bother with natural testosterone boosters. They aren’t really supported by very much science. Basically they may provide at best a very short lived boost at first and then nothing. It’s just a waste of money. It sounds like you could get a referral through your GP and actually be one of the few to actually get an NHS prescription potentially. The NHS level may be even lower than 350. That was an educated guess. Blame Dorian Yates! Lol
The NHS threshold is set lower than it would be in some other countries. I think normal range is 350 to 950 or something like that. So if you are 351 (which is pretty low!) the NHS won’t prescribe. Private clinics would but it will then cost a chunk every month. Usually people will misdiagnose themselves with low testosterone through Dr Google, when often it can be something as simple as lack of rest. Or people get obsessed with anti-ageing and think just because they are 50 they have to have this. TRT isn’t totally safe. Go on it and there will be some negative side effects too, so you need proper medical monitoring. Often people report that their baseline blood pressure is that bit higher on it. Nothing comes for free!
This is an interesting thread as I've been struggling with low testosterone levels and depression probably for years and I'm still fairly young. I only figured out last year that testosterone was part of the issue through private blood tests because I tested several things, I knew there was something wrong.
As you say it's 350 lower limit, my last few tests over last few months have been 240 to to 270! Which is incredibly low for a man my age. The last one was 250 few weeks ago. My prolactin is very high though so that could be part of the issue. I've been trying supplements to improve things but so far it hasn't made any dent.
There was a hyper up herb recently called Fadogia Aggrestis recommended by Andrew Huberman. Difficult to get but I a got a month or 2. Done nothing for my test levels they actually decreased slightly.
It's difficult now I'm at a crossroads I don't really want to go on TRT at my age and I don't think the GP will do much either but not sure what to do now.
I’m guessing you didn’t do steroids as a teenager or something silly? With the rise of social media fitness influencers trying to stand out, taking steroids and Sarms at crazy young ages is becoming very common. Teenagers crashing their systems deliberately to get prescribed TRT, mainly in America though thankfully.
That aside, I wouldn’t bother with natural testosterone boosters. They aren’t really supported by very much science. Basically they may provide at best a very short lived boost at first and then nothing. It’s just a waste of money. It sounds like you could get a referral through your GP and actually be one of the few to actually get an NHS prescription potentially. The NHS level may be even lower than 350. That was an educated guess. Blame Dorian Yates! Lol
No never done steroids or that. I've had issues with energy and other problems inc depression going back years. I'm trying another test booster Centrapeak at the minute but yeah it's a short boost thats all. I've seen the herb Tongkat Ali recommended so will try it next. I do lift weights a bit but again doesn't help much. I think something in the hormone production system in me is not working. I take an anti depressant for past few years which I believe raises prolactin but unclear on testosterone. I watch that channel on YouTube you mentioned more plates more dates which I do find informative and science based.
On the TRT , that would be a last resort for me at my age it could affect the possibility of me having children. GPs don't like referring men for it especially younger men. I think if I was 40 plus with same issues I would consider it. Part of me wants to find out root causes. Its normal for mens testosterone to drop 40 plus. But go years younger and something else is at fault.
On another note I do think from own experience that some men, perhaps many, with depression have low testosterone levels causing it most likely due to our modern lifestyles!
The NHS threshold is set lower than it would be in some other countries. I think normal range is 350 to 950 or something like that. So if you are 351 (which is pretty low!) the NHS won’t prescribe. Private clinics would but it will then cost a chunk every month. Usually people will misdiagnose themselves with low testosterone through Dr Google, when often it can be something as simple as lack of rest. Or people get obsessed with anti-ageing and think just because they are 50 they have to have this. TRT isn’t totally safe. Go on it and there will be some negative side effects too, so you need proper medical monitoring. Often people report that their baseline blood pressure is that bit higher on it. Nothing comes for free!
This is an interesting thread as I've been struggling with low testosterone levels and depression probably for years and I'm still fairly young. I only figured out last year that testosterone was part of the issue through private blood tests because I tested several things, I knew there was something wrong.
As you say it's 350 lower limit, my last few tests over last few months have been 240 to to 270! Which is incredibly low for a man my age. The last one was 250 few weeks ago. My prolactin is very high though so that could be part of the issue. I've been trying supplements to improve things but so far it hasn't made any dent.
There was a hyper up herb recently called Fadogia Aggrestis recommended by Andrew Huberman. Difficult to get but I a got a month or 2. Done nothing for my test levels they actually decreased slightly.
It's difficult now I'm at a crossroads I don't really want to go on TRT at my age and I don't think the GP will do much either but not sure what to do now.
I’m guessing you didn’t do steroids as a teenager or something silly? With the rise of social media fitness influencers trying to stand out, taking steroids and Sarms at crazy young ages is becoming very common. Teenagers crashing their systems deliberately to get prescribed TRT, mainly in America though thankfully.
That aside, I wouldn’t bother with natural testosterone boosters. They aren’t really supported by very much science. Basically they may provide at best a very short lived boost at first and then nothing. It’s just a waste of money. It sounds like you could get a referral through your GP and actually be one of the few to actually get an NHS prescription potentially. The NHS level may be even lower than 350. That was an educated guess. Blame Dorian Yates! Lol
This is an interesting thread as I've been struggling with low testosterone levels and depression probably for years and I'm still fairly young. I only figured out last year that testosterone was part of the issue through private blood tests because I tested several things, I knew there was something wrong.
As you say it's 350 lower limit, my last few tests over last few months have been 240 to to 270! Which is incredibly low for a man my age. The last one was 250 few weeks ago. My prolactin is very high though so that could be part of the issue. I've been trying supplements to improve things but so far it hasn't made any dent.
There was a hyper up herb recently called Fadogia Aggrestis recommended by Andrew Huberman. Difficult to get but I a got a month or 2. Done nothing for my test levels they actually decreased slightly.
It's difficult now I'm at a crossroads I don't really want to go on TRT at my age and I don't think the GP will do much either but not sure what to do now.
I’m guessing you didn’t do steroids as a teenager or something silly? With the rise of social media fitness influencers trying to stand out, taking steroids and Sarms at crazy young ages is becoming very common. Teenagers crashing their systems deliberately to get prescribed TRT, mainly in America though thankfully.
That aside, I wouldn’t bother with natural testosterone boosters. They aren’t really supported by very much science. Basically they may provide at best a very short lived boost at first and then nothing. It’s just a waste of money. It sounds like you could get a referral through your GP and actually be one of the few to actually get an NHS prescription potentially. The NHS level may be even lower than 350. That was an educated guess. Blame Dorian Yates! Lol
I’m guessing you didn’t do steroids as a teenager or something silly? With the rise of social media fitness influencers trying to stand out, taking steroids and Sarms at crazy young ages is becoming very common. Teenagers crashing their systems deliberately to get prescribed TRT, mainly in America though thankfully.
That aside, I wouldn’t bother with natural testosterone boosters. They aren’t really supported by very much science. Basically they may provide at best a very short lived boost at first and then nothing. It’s just a waste of money. It sounds like you could get a referral through your GP and actually be one of the few to actually get an NHS prescription potentially. The NHS level may be even lower than 350. That was an educated guess. Blame Dorian Yates! Lol
Billy Da Kid wrote: ↑19 May 2020, 23:49
So many fighters have popped dirty from there. I wonder who will be next. Hope it won't be.. but I've a feeling it'll be Liam WIlliams with the way his power has increased since moving
well williams was shocking in his fight against Eubank he looked so shot and completely different fighter i fancied him to beat Eubank before.
polecateddy wrote: ↑04 Feb 2022, 05:22
It’s a bit silly though. Just relying on Bro Science rather than anything a doctor would prescribe. And if they actually had a genuine low testosterone issue, which no doubt low libido and depression could be linked be linked into, cycling on and off some dodgy so-called testosterone sold at the back of a gym will ultimately make matters worse in the long run. People with actual properly diagnosed low testosterone will need proper, safe TRT treatment the rest of their lives. I don’t think it’s like a course of antibiotics to prep you up a bit. It doesn’t work like that, because you just crash as soon as you come off it. So you can probably trust dodgy testosterone sold at the gym about as far as you can throw it!
I agree, I wouldn't want to risk harming myself long term just to be able to lift a heavier weight or get whatever gain they get from injecting stuff that some bloke in a gym sells. If someone suffers from genuine low testosterone then go the a GP and get it prescribed properly however from what I've read that's not always easy. Potential side affects of being on testosterone are an enlarged prostate and blood thickening so those prescribed it will be getting regular checks, others won't.
The issue is the NHS wait until you're proper proper low though and would rather just give you sleeping tablets and anti depressants and shit like that
polecateddy wrote: ↑04 Feb 2022, 05:22
It’s a bit silly though. Just relying on Bro Science rather than anything a doctor would prescribe. And if they actually had a genuine low testosterone issue, which no doubt low libido and depression could be linked be linked into, cycling on and off some dodgy so-called testosterone sold at the back of a gym will ultimately make matters worse in the long run. People with actual properly diagnosed low testosterone will need proper, safe TRT treatment the rest of their lives. I don’t think it’s like a course of antibiotics to prep you up a bit. It doesn’t work like that, because you just crash as soon as you come off it. So you can probably trust dodgy testosterone sold at the gym about as far as you can throw it!
I agree, I wouldn't want to risk harming myself long term just to be able to lift a heavier weight or get whatever gain they get from injecting stuff that some bloke in a gym sells. If someone suffers from genuine low testosterone then go the a GP and get it prescribed properly however from what I've read that's not always easy. Potential side affects of being on testosterone are an enlarged prostate and blood thickening so those prescribed it will be getting regular checks, others won't.
The issue is the NHS wait until you're proper proper low though and would rather just give you sleeping tablets and anti depressants and shit like that
I don’t know how it works but maybe there is a reluctance to put someone on that treatment as it’s for life and can have serious side affects. I guess if it really is an issue and the NHS won’t help there are private clinics that will.
In my old job I was struggling, I couldn't sleep, had libido issues, felt depressed and lethargic etc. Got tested and I was down from 500 odd to like 380, they weren't interested at all. I haven't tested again. I lift weights and do cv until the cows come home. Nothing helps really. They were totally reluctant to help. I would go back but I had to have some dodgy moles checked out by a doctor a few months ago and getting past reception was a saga. Luckily these ones didn't need removing.
wrighty wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 22:08
In my old job I was struggling, I couldn't sleep, had libido issues, felt depressed and lethargic etc. Got tested and I was down from 500 odd to like 380, they weren't interested at all. I haven't tested again. I lift weights and do cv until the cows come home. Nothing helps really. They were totally reluctant to help. I would go back but I had to have some dodgy moles checked out by a doctor a few months ago and getting past reception was a saga. Luckily these ones didn't need removing.
Sorry to hear that you had such a tough time of it. I hope things have significantly improved re work, depression and lethargy etc.
wrighty wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 22:08
In my old job I was struggling, I couldn't sleep, had libido issues, felt depressed and lethargic etc. Got tested and I was down from 500 odd to like 380, they weren't interested at all. I haven't tested again. I lift weights and do cv until the cows come home. Nothing helps really. They were totally reluctant to help. I would go back but I had to have some dodgy moles checked out by a doctor a few months ago and getting past reception was a saga. Luckily these ones didn't need removing.
Sorry to hear that you had such a tough time of it. I hope things have significantly improved re work, depression and lethargy etc.
cheers pal. It's getting there. I think my testosterone still isn't great. I just try and eat well and stay busy
Maybe the main issue is sleeping. It was slightly after lockdown and I went a bit turbo during that. I would want to avoid trt in honesty but if it got lower I would likely do it. I wouldn't be doing it to train but just to feel like me again
