What If ? Jack Johnson vrs Gentleman Jim Corbett ( July 1910)

[HomicideHenry]

I corrected my post @ Hopkins.

[pound per pound]

I saw this on Youtube a while back as well. for his age, Corbett was very impressive. He must have been great in his prime.
But again, at 43, and off several years, he would not have had a chance against Jack Johnson. Sparring and fighting a in a real fight is not the same thing. Tunney was not trying to win a fight here. Johnson would have been.

Being that he was only 178 lbs basically, he must have been the fastest heavyweight champion in history. I know a long time ago there was a video roundtable of a couple of old timers asked their thoughts about Ali when he was still Cassius Clay and every single one of the old timers said that Corbett was faster.

Now maybe you can take such a statement as that with a grain of salt because of probable racist attitudes but I think it does make sense physically considering how small Corbett actually was--- if it's said that Ali moved like a middleweight, Corbett probably moved like a welterweight.

Being that he was only 178 lbs basically, he must have been the fastest heavyweight champion in history.
Being smaller doesn't automatically make him the faster. Fitzsimmons and Burns were smaller than Corbett, doesn't make them faster than Corbett.

There is no way in the world that he was as fast as Ali. Ridiculous to even think that. There is some footage of Corbett against Fitzsimmons and and he clearly was not as fast as Ali in both hand speed and foot movement.

I timed a round one of Fitz vs Corbett and round one times 3 minutes and 40 seconds on my copy. Of course a regular round is 3:00 minutes. Its a slow film except for when Corbett moves around and throws punches. He is lighting and might have as fast as Ali. He was 185-190 in his prime. Same weight as Dempsey and Marciano and same weight as Johnson pre 1908 fights.

[Caractacus]

-1894-
Corbett (age 28)was in "The Matrix".

BTW That was filmed at Thomas Edison's Black Maria studios in West Orange New Jersey
on September.7.1894
(The second anniversary of Corbett's win over Sullivan)
Corbett was in Manhatten doing his play GENTLEMEN JACK,
arrived in West Orange NJ in the morning and was back in Manhatten later that day to do the play.
Six one-minute rounds had been filmed for the Nickelodeons across the country,
but I guess thats all the film of it that survives.

[Ambling Alp II]

Can't even fathom how someone could watch any of Ali's fights during his first title reign and honestly think he wasn't faster than Corbett.

Ali-Williams:

Obviously Corbett was fast but he clearly isn't as fast as Ali.
Watching Ali's hand speed in his prime is still something special to see.

[Caractacus]

well, I m not an expert in how Boxing rings changed since 1899, but Im thinking Ali probably had some
kind of padding under the ring there in 1966 to be able to bounce around on it like that.
( that floor there in the "Black Maria" looked like it was cement )
How would the original "Dancing Master" have done against Jack Johnson in 1910 ?
( age 43/.44 )
Johnson usually was fought 'flat-footed" from what I've seen.
I wonder how much Corbett himself weighed that day at ring-side July.4.1910.

[Contendeh]

Stylistically, Corbett was much better suited to do well against Johnson than just about anyone else that could have been put in the ring.
I imagine he would have had some moments where he would look pretty decent, even at 44.

Johnson would have bided his time and Corbett would have tired out and then start to really get battered.

[Caractacus]

I dunno, it may have been just a long "chess match" for either fighter to make a move.

When Corbett fought Jeffries the second time.
Corbett was almost 38 yrs old and 180 lbs to 230 lbs ( both at 6 ft 1 and a half inches tall.
He noticed in the fight prior to that with Kd McCoy
that he was going-down hill,
his eyesight was failing and he could not see some punches coming and his re-action time was slowing down

[pound per pound]

I seem to remember reading somewhere
that when Jack Johnson became HW champion in 1908.
the American public actually wanted Gentleman Jim to return to the ring
and become "The Great White Hope"
Even tho GJC was a bit long in the tooth by then of coursr,(born 1866)
how do you think it would have went ?
would he have done a better showing then Jeffries ?

Corbett would have beaten Johnson in the 1890's up to 1902, but by 1910 he was old.

[funso banjo baby]

But could Corbett have 'outboxed" Johnson even at nearly age 44 ?
BTW did you see how that Ken Burns made Corbett out to be ?
a spittle flying y racist crazy man at ring-side.
I read Corbetts 1925 autobiography a couple years ago
and he sounded the fartest thing from it in it

.

Obviously Corbett was a garden variety racist

[bwu]

Setting aside the Kid McCoy fight, which might have been a fix, Corbett hadn’t won a fight since he knocked out Charlie Mitchell in early ‘94. He wasn’t doing a thing against Johnson 16 years later.

[1108788]

Corbett loses, but he gives himself a MUCH better showing than Jeffries did.

Even at an old age, Corbett was impressive athletically, and still was technique wise. A 59 year old Corbett managed to dazzle Gene Tunney in sparring, with Tunney saying;

"He was brilliant. He still had bewildering speed. He mixed up his punches better than practically any fighter I've ever seen. Imagine, fifty-nine years old! It was the greatest demonstration I've ever seen in the ring. I learned plenty."





Ironically, a 43 year old Corbett would probably be one of Johnson's more challenging title defenses in comparison to his other ones. It's possible he can even make the distance.

[HomicideHenry]

Corbett loses, but he gives himself a MUCH better showing than Jeffries did.

Even at an old age, Corbett was impressive athletically, and still was technique wise. A 59 year old Corbett managed to dazzle Gene Tunney in sparring, with Tunney saying;

"He was brilliant. He still had bewildering speed. He mixed up his punches better than practically any fighter I've ever seen. Imagine, fifty-nine years old! It was the greatest demonstration I've ever seen in the ring. I learned plenty."





Ironically, a 43 year old Corbett would probably be one of Johnson's more challenging title defenses in comparison to his other ones. It's possible he can even make the distance.

Oh he was incredibly fast which is why a lot of old timers who had seen him compete remarked that he was quicker than Muhammad Ali. I tend to believe it largely because he was 178 pounds against Sullivan and weighed 193 at his heaviest. We ain't talking about a 200 pounder.

[Ambling Alp II]

A lot of old timers said that, did they? Really? Corbett's last fight was in 1903, more than 60 years before Ali won the title. Anway, going by the little film that has resurfaced, there is no way that Corbett was as fast on his feet or with his hands as Ali.

[HomicideHenry]

A lot of old timers said that, did they? Really? Corbett's last fight was in 1903, more than 60 years before Ali won the title. Anway, going by the little film that has resurfaced, there is no way that Corbett was as fast on his feet or with his hands as Ali.

Someone in the 170 pound range is going to be faster than a 215-220 pound heavyweight no matter how fast that heavyweight is in comparison to other heavyweights. It's not hard to imagine this. Surely Joe Calzaghe was faster than Muhammad Ali.

[Ambling Alp II]

Wow. No, the smaller fighter isn't automatically faster.. That isn't how it works. It isn't automatic. You have to use eyes and see what a specific fighter can actually do. A guy who weighs more than 200 can certainly be faster than a guy smaller. A smaller guy could have a bigger punch. It depends on the specific person we are talking about. You can't just go by weights and say this guy must have been faster than that guy.

And no, Calzaghe or Corbett certainly wasn't faster than Ali, regardless of what anyone weighed.

[HomicideHenry]

Wow. No, they are not. That isn't how it works. It isn't automatic. You have to use eyes and see what specific can actually do. A guy who weighs more than 200 can certainly be faster than a guy smaller. A smaller guy could have a bigger punch. It depends on the specific person we are talking about. You can't just go by weights and say this guy must have been faster than that guy.

And no, Calzaghe or Corbett certainly wasn't faster than Ali, regardless of what anyone weighed.

[Ambling Alp II]

You said "Someone in the 170 pound range is going to be faster than a 215-220 pound heavyweight no matter how fast that heavyweight is in comparison to other heavyweights," and you are laughing at me?
How ignorant can you be?

[HomicideHenry]

You said "Someone in the 170 pound range is going to be faster than a 215-220 pound heavyweight no matter how fast that heavyweight is in comparison to other heavyweights," and you are laughing at me?
How ignorant can you be?

A man 50-60 pounds heavier is going to be faster than a middleweight or light heavyweight What a maroon. The slowest middleweight is going to be faster than your average heavyweight.

[Ambling Alp II]

Obviously on average the smaller guy is going to be faster. That isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about specific people.
Watch this fight: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Al ... M%3DVDMHRS

Then watch Corbett-Fitzsimmons. Ali is clearly faster than Corbett. Faster than Fitzsimmons for that matter.

On average, a guy weighing over 200 is going to be a harder puncher than a guy well under 200. However, Bob Fitzsimmons was well under 200 but hit harder than many guys who weighed over 200.

The average guy who weights 180 or so is going to be a faster runner a guy who weighs over 200. than Usain bolt is about 6'5 and weighed over 200. He beat guys smaller than himself and won several Gold Medals.

You have to use your brain and go by a case-by-case basis. It's idiotic to say Corbett is faster because he is smaller.