BoxRec Forum HW Top 15 ranking - Joyce vs. Zhang

[KiwiRider]

to put zhang at 5 in front of whyte, parker & ruiz? can't be serious.

y' all must be joking.

I agree it's a little high, but if Zhang and Whyte fought, Whyte would be kissing canvas inside the first round.
Yes he has had some good wins in the past, and avenged a loss. But 2023 Whyte is fragile, and Zhang can bang!

[Ruthless-RKO]

I’m easy with Joyce going anywhere as long as Dhang is one place above him that’s enough.

[joshj909]

If we just got fair scorecards.. we’d never be in these situations.

Even last nyt, we had a dodgy card.

How come some people have Hrgovic so high on their lists?

On paper, he got the win over the guy everyone is voting to number 5 just 7 months ago.

And at the time Zhang was not near our top 15 I don’t think.

But with hindsight we know that he is just above or just below Zhang and therefore, Joyce. It's not like with Parker's win over the higher rated Ruiz when it was ages ago, it's recent enough that the result is fully relevant to the current rankings.

It's the same reason I have for my belief that Bakole should drop in rank because his win over Yoka hasn't aged well as Yoka lost to Takam. Takam was not voted in, and realistically, Bakole shouldn't have been either but at the time we all misunderstood the value of a win over Yoka

[joshj909]

to put zhang at 5 in front of whyte, parker & ruiz? can't be serious.

y' all must be joking.

He definitely should be above Parker as he just stopped the guy who just stopped Parker. Parker's only top tier win is his 7 year old win over Ruiz which has lost a lot of importance given the amount of time that has gone by.

It's open to interpretation with Ruiz and Whyte. Ruiz has historic loss against Parker and one big win against Joshua (+ a loss). Ruiz has not done a lot else against top level guys. Whyte has a win over Parker but also Povetkin (+ a loss) who I think most considered top 5.

As long as Whyte and Joyce are above Parker, then Zhang is above Joyce, then individual arguments can be made.

For these guys, Ruiz > Zhang > Whyte > Joyce > Parker makes most sense to me but I would understand arguments of swapping Zhang and Whyte depending on how people rate Povetkin/Joyce as wins and Whyte's loss.

[Ruthless-RKO]

Wasn’t Yoka in our top 10 before the Bakole loss?

[joshj909]

Wasn’t Yoka in our top 10 before the Bakole loss?

Think he was 11th, but with the extra 12 months of hindsight, he doesn't deserve to be there. In my eyes, the rankings are for today, not 12 months ago. He's probably down at around 25-20 for most people now so right now Bakole has a career best win against the guy ranked 25-30, not one ranked at 11.

[giacomino]

I thought Zhang edged Hrgovic so had no problem putting him higher in the rankings. Parker has been rated too high, IMO, because of his wins over 33-13 Chisora

[Ruthless-RKO]

I thought Zhang edged Hrgovic so had no problem putting him higher in the rankings. Parker has been rated too high, IMO, because of his wins over 33-13 Chisora

He did cause two of those 13 losses..

I’m unsure why he was rated so highly..

Maybe, he lost clean to AJ, but there was some controversy with the Whyte loss.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I love the votes for dropping Joyce below 8..

If only these people would have voted to drop the likes of Pulev and Chisora from the rankings after their losses.. we’d have more young blood in the rankings.

[margaret thatcher]

ya, joyce shouldnt be ranked below a guy he did this to 2 fights ago

[HomicideHenry]

Current ranking:
Tyson Fury - 33(24) 0 1 - next fight: TBA

2. Oleksandr Usyk - 20(13) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

3. Anthony Joshua - 25(22) 3(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

4. Deontay Wilder - 43(42) 2(2) 1 - next fight: TBA

5. Joe Joyce - 15(14) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

6. Andy Ruiz Jr - 35(22) 2(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

7. Joseph Parker - 31(21) 3(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

8. Dillian Whyte - 29(19) 3(3) 0 - next fight: TBA

9. Martin Bakole - 18(13) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

10. Frank Sanchez - 22(15) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

11. Luis Ortiz - 33(28) 3(2) 0 - next fight: TBA

12. Kubrat Pulev - 29(14) 3(2) 0 - next fight: TBA

13. Filip Hrgovic - 15(12) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

14. Dereck Chisora - 33(23) 13(4) 0 - next fight: TBA

15. Jared Anderson - 14(14) 0 0 - next fight: TBA
----------

Question: How are the rankings affected following Joyce’s stoppage loss to Zhang?

Chisora to #15.
Pulev out of the rankings.
Ortiz down one.
Whyte and Parker down one.
Zhang to #5.
Joyce to #11.

Everybody else under the top ten goes up one.

Considering BoxRec had Zhang ranked #31 at the time Joyce should be knocked completely out of the top ten.

[Finkel]

Ruiz Jr. to #5

Zhang to #6

Joyce to #7

[Finkel]

Current ranking:
Tyson Fury - 33(24) 0 1 - next fight: TBA

2. Oleksandr Usyk - 20(13) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

3. Anthony Joshua - 25(22) 3(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

4. Deontay Wilder - 43(42) 2(2) 1 - next fight: TBA

5. Joe Joyce - 15(14) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

6. Andy Ruiz Jr - 35(22) 2(0) 0 - next fight: TBA

7. Joseph Parker - 31(21) 3(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

8. Dillian Whyte - 29(19) 3(3) 0 - next fight: TBA

9. Martin Bakole - 18(13) 1(1) 0 - next fight: TBA

10. Frank Sanchez - 22(15) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

11. Luis Ortiz - 33(28) 3(2) 0 - next fight: TBA

12. Kubrat Pulev - 29(14) 3(2) 0 - next fight: TBA

13. Filip Hrgovic - 15(12) 0 0 - next fight: TBA

14. Dereck Chisora - 33(23) 13(4) 0 - next fight: TBA

15. Jared Anderson - 14(14) 0 0 - next fight: TBA
----------

Question: How are the rankings affected following Joyce’s stoppage loss to Zhang?

Chisora to #15.
Pulev out of the rankings.
Ortiz down one.
Whyte and Parker down one.
Zhang to #5.
Joyce to #11.

Everybody else under the top ten goes up one.

Considering BoxRec had Zhang ranked #31 at the time Joyce should be knocked completely out of the top ten.

Fair enough, but I thought we were doing this ranking because we all understood that boxrec's are awful

Just for context many of us wanted Zhang in the top 15 following the controversial loss to Hrgovic

[gregregegg]

I have vited zhang to 5 because that’s the best option you gave, but I want zhang to 3. I don’t think he is the third best fighter in the world but he arguably has the best heavyweight win apart from fury and usyk.

[marvelous marv]

Zhang to 5
Joyce to 6

I still feel like Joyce would have won if the fight went 12 rounds, but credit to Zhang.

[morm]

Chat shit get Zhanged. 20/1 and £200 richer. Zhang to 4th, Joyce to 8th.

Reasoning is that Wilder has never beaten anyone as good as Joyce so Zhang goes up above him. Joyce has beaten Parker so is above him.

My personal rankings have changed quite a lot over the past few months but they look something like this:

1. Usyk
2. Fury
3. Joshua
4. Ruiz
5. Hrgovic
6. Zhang
7. Whyte
8. Joyce
9. Sanchez
10. Parker
11. Wilder
12. Ajagba
13. Makhmudov
14. Chisora
15. Bakole

*Demirezen would be in 15th, but he has announced an indefinite break, while Anderson is next up behind Bakole.

Edit: Can I change my vote? I selected 7th instead of 8th as I didn't take into account that Zhang coming in would push them all down one.

Agree

[Ruthless-RKO]

Make sure ur all voting too in the poll.

[Ruthless-RKO]

As it stands.

Zhang to 5th

Joyce to 7th.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Zhang fought even with hrg and beat joyce. 6 seems right just under hrgovic

[HyacinthusTurnipseed]

Zhang to five, everyone else (Joyce included) down one. We can reassess Hrg and the rest the next time they fight.

[Mexi-Box]

Zhang has one of the best wins at HW in a long time, not counting Fury or Usyk, and he beat Hrgovic in my mind. Joyce was very much looking like a top 3 fighter, so i can't see a reason not to give him the top 5 spot. He's definitely the consensus contender now.

Only keeping him from leapfrogging Wilder and Joshua because respect their resume's depth, but that Joyce win was class.

[gregregegg]

I’d like to add in that hrg to 8-10ish feels fair now given this zhang win. I had it pretty even if I remember correct.

[KiwiRider]

Zhang to 5
Joyce to 6

I still feel like Joyce would have won if the fight went 12 rounds, but credit to Zhang.

Yes, I think most of us saw the tide turning in that fight. Zhang was talking advantage of Joyce not being able to see from that eye in the 6th, but I feel that was the last of Zhang's energy trying to finish. He was puffing and slowing after 4.
And as Joyce has proven in the past, he has a heck of an engine.

So having them next to each other, with Zhang above is how I feel about the rankings too.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Zhang to 5
Joyce to 6

I still feel like Joyce would have won if the fight went 12 rounds, but credit to Zhang.

Yes, I think most of us saw the tide turning in that fight. Zhang was talking advantage of Joyce not being able to see from that eye in the 6th, but I feel that was the last of Zhang's energy trying to finish. He was puffing and slowing after 4.
And as Joyce has proven in the past, he has a heck of an engine.

So having them next to each other, with Zhang above is how I feel about the rankings too.

I mean the fix was in on the cards zhang would have never won a decision

[KiwiRider]

Zhang to 5
Joyce to 6

I still feel like Joyce would have won if the fight went 12 rounds, but credit to Zhang.

Yes, I think most of us saw the tide turning in that fight. Zhang was talking advantage of Joyce not being able to see from that eye in the 6th, but I feel that was the last of Zhang's energy trying to finish. He was puffing and slowing after 4.
And as Joyce has proven in the past, he has a heck of an engine.

So having them next to each other, with Zhang above is how I feel about the rankings too.

I mean the fix was in on the cards zhang would have never won a decision

Sad eh?
The cards didn't reflect what I saw. Joyce threw a lot more punches, but Zhang caught most on his arms or gloves, and just bobbed to the side. That in itself scores points if you can make the other guy fruitless in his attacks.