BoxRec Forum HW Top 15 ranking - Joyce vs. Zhang

[chinarich]

I put Zhang at five which pushes Joyce down to six. If the option was there I would put Zhang at four and push Wilder down to five because he hasn't done anything of note for several years.

[Mexi-Box]

I put Zhang at five which pushes Joyce down to six. If the option was there I would put Zhang at four and push Wilder down to five because he hasn't done anything of note for several years.

These are always my favorite conundrums. I favor depth over big wins, and Wilder and Joshua have far more depth than Zhang. It's also not wrong to say this win is better than either have done in quite a few years. I mean both are approaching almost 3 years or more since they've beaten a top 5 or so opponent. Wilder probably longer since I'm unsure if Ortiz was a top 5 guy when he did their rematch.

[joshj909]

I put Zhang at five which pushes Joyce down to six. If the option was there I would put Zhang at four and push Wilder down to five because he hasn't done anything of note for several years.

These are always my favorite conundrums. I favor depth over big wins, and Wilder and Joshua have far more depth than Zhang. It's also not wrong to say this win is better than either have done in quite a few years. I mean both are approaching almost 3 years or more since they've beaten a top 5 or so opponent. Wilder probably longer since I'm unsure if Ortiz was a top 5 guy when he did their rematch.

Ortiz was never a top 5 guy

[gregregegg]

This fight has caused drama on the boxrec computer rankings.... because of the rule where you cant be above someone that beat you (for 3 years? mabey?)....

derek must be above pulev, Parker must be above derek, joyce must be above parker, zhang must be above joyce and hrg must be above zhang...

Also how is DDD 8th hahaha, computer is on crack...

[joshj909]

This fight has caused drama on the boxrec computer rankings.... because of the rule where you cant be above someone that beat you (for 3 years? mabey?)....

derek must be above pulev, Parker must be above derek, joyce must be above parker, zhang must be above joyce and hrg must be above zhang...

Also how is DDD 8th hahaha, computer is on crack...

They've also bumped Ortiz up to 7th. How on earth has that happened? Maybe they've been tinkering with the formula again to ensure that all those other guys are in the correct order.

[Ruthless-RKO]

This is from TBRB

Heavyweight Joe Joyce didn’t look like the Juggernaut he’s billed as after he was stunned several times and then stopped by China’s Zhilei Zhang in six rounds. Zhang, who took a chance and fought the #2-ranked contender for short money, used quick hands and a basic strategy (“How to Fight Southpaws 101”) to close Joyce’s eye and force a stoppage. He is now ranked #5 in the world. Joyce drops to #6, though he was proposed by the chairs to drop all the way to #9. Frank Sanchez is bumped out.

Code: Select all

4	Andy Ruiz Jr.	35-2-0 (22)	USA	5
5	Zhilei Zhang	25-1-1 (20)	CHN	--
6	Joe Joyce	15-1-0 (14)	ENG	2
7	Dillian Whyte	29-3-0 (19)	ENG	6
8	Otto Wallin	25-1-0 (14)	SWE	7

Of course they rank Usyk as champion and Fury at #1.. Joyce was quite high in their rankings, followed by Wilder and then AJ.

No idea was Wallin is doing there.

They have Ortiz at #9 and Parker at #10.

They don’t even rank Hrg highly.

[adislav123]

the hrg who has a win against 'bang bang zhang who fo real can bang', the mightiest smasher in the division who brutalized the juggernaut into cyclops joyce. 'unable to continue'.

it's all really a matter of personal preference how to stack them.

[Finkel]

This fight has caused drama on the boxrec computer rankings.... because of the rule where you cant be above someone that beat you (for 3 years? mabey?)....

derek must be above pulev, Parker must be above derek, joyce must be above parker, zhang must be above joyce and hrg must be above zhang...

Also how is DDD 8th hahaha, computer is on crack...

It's a real shame that PBO fell by the way side early last year. They really had objectively the best rankings. Purely resume based and not swayed by flavour of the month. I mean really, what were TBRB thinking rankings Joyce at #2

https://www.premierboxingorganisation.c ... weight-200

There will always be one or two rankings that might argue with, but it was computer rankings done right.

[joshj909]

This fight has caused drama on the boxrec computer rankings.... because of the rule where you cant be above someone that beat you (for 3 years? mabey?)....

derek must be above pulev, Parker must be above derek, joyce must be above parker, zhang must be above joyce and hrg must be above zhang...

Also how is DDD 8th hahaha, computer is on crack...

It's a real shame that PBO fell by the way side early last year. They really had objectively the best rankings. Purely resume based and not swayed by flavour of the month. I mean really, what were TBRB thinking rankings Joyce at #2

https://www.premierboxingorganisation.c ... weight-200

There will always be one or two rankings that might argue with, but it was computer rankings done right.

Agreed. Although there was some subjectivity in assigning comparable fighters with no common opponent, they stuck to the man that beat the man model which was mostly automated. Have to say, they did have a few anomalies over the years with Hammer at 7th, Charr at 12th, Takam at 6th, Arreola at 6th. Not only do we need unified belts/orgs, we need unified ratings such as this!

[Ruthless-RKO]

There was a guy on here who used to promote PBO and post about it every week or month with updated rankings.

[joshj909]

There was a guy on here who used to promote PBO and post about it every week or month with updated rankings.

Wasn't it Lennox?

[Ruthless-RKO]

There was a guy on here who used to promote PBO and post about it every week or month with updated rankings.

Wasn't it Lennox?

I believe so.

Name rings a bell.

Was PBO his?

[joshj909]

There was a guy on here who used to promote PBO and post about it every week or month with updated rankings.

Wasn't it Lennox?

I believe so.

Name rings a bell.

Was PBO his?

Not sure. I think so.

?

[Ruthless-RKO]

It was I found this..

don't have last nights results but.

www.premierboxingorganisation.com/heavyweight-200

Helenius bt Kownacki
Washington bt Helenius
Charles Martin bt Washington

He used to paste the website whenever someone used to mention rankings.

[margaret thatcher]

he would constantly up his own rankings while putting up his nose at boxrec's, but pbo had some serious stinkers. i think they had krzstyof zimnoch almost top 10 at one point

transnational has somem really weird ones ocassionaly that i cant imagine a whole panel agreed on, makes me wonder if it's mostly the springs toledo making the rankings. the guy would vehemently defend justin de loach being ranked their #4 jmw in the world

[Contendeh]

ZZ 5
Andy 6
JJ 7

And Usyk is champ and Fury is behind him.
How could Fury be ahead of Usyk when Fury had every advantage handed to him and failed to make the fight?

[HomicideHenry]

Because Tyson Fury is the lineal champion and that trumps alphabet champions. That's why he's number one. Even if the alphabet champion is superior, the precedent of this sport is to always have the lineal champion number one until he or she loses.

[margaret thatcher]

nope, our rankings arent based on lineal, someone can be lineal champ and there's no obligation to put them at #1. lineal is mostly just a furyboi fetish these days, obsessing over it because he doesnt have the other titles

fury's at 1 over usyk simply because he has more depth at hw

if you're insecure about your dude being the man of the division, scream lineal as loud as you can

[Ruthless-RKO]

nope, our rankings arent based on lineal, someone can be lineal champ and there's no obligation to put them at #1. lineal is mostly just a furyboi fetish these days, obsessing over it because he doesnt have the other titles

fury's at 1 over usyk simply because he has more depth at hw

if you're insecure about your dude being the man of the division, scream lineal as loud as you can

You’re right.

If say, Fury was to beat Chisora, Zhang and Charr next, and Usyk was to beat Dubois, Hrgovic and Wilder..

I’m sure most of us would have Usyk at #1.

[HomicideHenry]

Go ahead, ignore historical precedent.

This website is a joke anymore.

[margaret thatcher]

lol, look at that timeline, furybois shooting their jizz all over dat lineal

[HomicideHenry]

lol, look at that timeline, furybois shooting their jizz all over dat lineal

If anyone is questionably gay it has to be you and that other fellow who kept talking about men's asses around here. I am a boxing purist and the lineal title has always mattered all the way back to James Figg.

[margaret thatcher]

lol, look at that timeline, furybois shooting their jizz all over dat lineal

If anyone is questionably gay it has to be you and that other fellow who kept talking about men's asses around here. I am a boxing purist and the lineal title has always mattered all the way back to James Figg.

my man, you bring up chicks with dicks more often than anyone here, so what would that make you

the lineal obsession shows the insecurity around the fury bois. instead of actually talking about who he's beaten, which could give him a fine argument in its own right, you go to that utterly crap lineal nonsense, because big daddy usyk has 3 belts to fury's 1. it's okay brah, it's not the end of the world

[HomicideHenry]

lol, look at that timeline, furybois shooting their jizz all over dat lineal

If anyone is questionably gay it has to be you and that other fellow who kept talking about men's asses around here. I am a boxing purist and the lineal title has always mattered all the way back to James Figg.

my man, you bring up chicks with dicks more often than anyone here, so what would that make you

the lineal obsession shows the insecurity around the fury bois. instead of actually talking about who he's beaten, which could give him a fine argument in its own right, you go to that utterly crap lineal nonsense, because big daddy usyk has 3 belts to fury's 1. it's okay brah, it's not the end of the world

It don't matter what arguments you have because at the end of the day Tyson Fury defeated the man who defeated the man who defeated the man. Period. Usyk has only defeated a pretender to the crown twice.

[margaret thatcher]

If anyone is questionably gay it has to be you and that other fellow who kept talking about men's asses around here. I am a boxing purist and the lineal title has always mattered all the way back to James Figg.

my man, you bring up chicks with dicks more often than anyone here, so what would that make you

the lineal obsession shows the insecurity around the fury bois. instead of actually talking about who he's beaten, which could give him a fine argument in its own right, you go to that utterly crap lineal nonsense, because big daddy usyk has 3 belts to fury's 1. it's okay brah, it's not the end of the world

It don't matter what arguments you have because at the end of the day Tyson Fury defeated the man who defeated the man who defeated the man. Period. Usyk has only defeated a pretender to the crown twice.

8 years ago fury beat the man who beat the man (well debatable, who was the particular man wlad beat ), then retired his arse for 3 years.

of course when fury came back, since he didnt have any belts his ballgaggers had to find something to obsess over, since they were insecure about fury's standing with other titlists around. 95 percent of lineal discussion is just furybois creaming their panties over it for that reason

"fury beat these particular fighters, in this style, and has this depth to his record, which is superior to that of these other guys records.........etc" now that's an actual argument to rank fury #1, just defaulting to lineal is beyond silly