Robert Helenius adverse VADA finding

[JamesPhilips]

In 2002 Fernando Vargas tested positive for PED's, Oscar De La Hoya didn't.

Remind me again. Who won that fight?

You actually believe the reliability of the testing process???

No as a matter of fact I don't. Which is a big part of the reason why I have the stance I have.

The only way to ensure everyone is playing on an even playing field is if everyone is ALLOWED to take whatever supplements they want in training.

If this guy can, but this guy can't then it's not fair.

All you need is money and a shady manager, and you'll be getting away with it for years.

In many ways I agree. The only alternative is to have a really well funded and robust testing organisation…. And severe penalties. But even then some corruption will seep through. It’s so unlikely we may as well let everything be legal. After all creatine is legal and is performance enhancing!??!?

[gilgamesh]

But what if someone doesn’t want to take drugs? You are then either forced to because everyone else is or compete against guys juiced up

In 2002 Fernando Vargas tested positive for PED's, Oscar De La Hoya didn't.

Remind me again. Who won that fight?

Of course it doesn’t guarantee you will win but that’s not really the point. It’s potentially giving an advantage you wouldn’t have if you didn’t take it so it’s cheating. Not everyone wants to take drugs.

Not everyone has to either.

You're gonna win or you're gonna lose because you're a better fighter.

People can try everything they can think of to give themselves an extra edge, but at the end of the day, the better fighter is USUALLY gonna win the fight.

[gilgamesh]

You actually believe the reliability of the testing process???

No as a matter of fact I don't. Which is a big part of the reason why I have the stance I have.

The only way to ensure everyone is playing on an even playing field is if everyone is ALLOWED to take whatever supplements they want in training.

If this guy can, but this guy can't then it's not fair.

All you need is money and a shady manager, and you'll be getting away with it for years.

In many ways I agree. The only alternative is to have a really well funded and robust testing organisation…. And severe penalties. But even then some corruption will seep through. It’s so unlikely we may as well let everything be legal. After all creatine is legal and is performance enhancing!??!?

There is no alternative.

We have the broken system we got where some get away with and some don't. Or everybody can do it.

I'm pretty sure the VADA is already the best attempt you're ever gonna see at a "Robust testing organization"

[maverick23]

With hindsight, how annoying is it that we had to watch AJ Vs a PED using Helenius instead of a PED using Whyte.

Anyone genuinely believe Joshua isn’t using PEDs?

I'm curious has any other fighter had their opponent caught with a failed test
as much as Joshua has?
Seems they always have a back up plan for his guaranteed to fail opponent

Could that be because I’d imagine every AJ fight post Whyte has had VADA testing?

It does make me wonder just how widespread it is.

[JamesPhilips]

No as a matter of fact I don't. Which is a big part of the reason why I have the stance I have.

The only way to ensure everyone is playing on an even playing field is if everyone is ALLOWED to take whatever supplements they want in training.

If this guy can, but this guy can't then it's not fair.

All you need is money and a shady manager, and you'll be getting away with it for years.

In many ways I agree. The only alternative is to have a really well funded and robust testing organisation…. And severe penalties. But even then some corruption will seep through. It’s so unlikely we may as well let everything be legal. After all creatine is legal and is performance enhancing!??!?

There is no alternative.

We have the broken system we got where some get away with and some don't. Or everybody can do it.

I'm pretty sure the VADA is already the best attempt you're ever gonna see at a "Robust testing organization"

Ultimately I agree with you….. too much money in pro sports

[coneye]

The better fighter will prevail is flawed ,, Course he will IF there the better fighter , example anyone on this forum wants to challenge Froch or AJ , juice all you want your probably gonna get knocked the fooook out simple , because i suspect there gonna be the better fighter , unless Usyk posts on here under a false name .

But the problem is when you get two guys who are within reach of each other , the peds just simply give one an unfair advantage .

Benn is a perfect example of what the peds can do , how they can change you , make you that little bit faster and stronger , then when you get the peds put into the body of an out and out caaant , who takes them , cheats and fights older past it guys , a guy who dispite having a handpicked win against older slower , past it boxers , still has enough of a caaant in him to dance over the prone body of his VICTIM and lets have it right VICTIM is the right word . Well then they are dangerous ,

Only way to stop it is make the penalty very very severe , put it in the contract money held in trust , when peds are cleared money paid , , if failed minimum 4 year ban , straight to jail do not pass go , no exceptions second time life time ban .

If anyone hurt during the fight where a fighter has took them , instant criminal action for GBH or whatever is suitable

[gilgamesh]

The better fighter will prevail is flawed ,, Course he will IF there the better fighter , example anyone on this forum wants to challenge Froch or AJ , juice all you want your probably gonna get knocked the fooook out simple , because i suspect there gonna be the better fighter , unless Usyk posts on here under a false name .

But the problem is when you get two guys who are within reach of each other , the peds just simply give one an unfair advantage .

Benn is a perfect example of what the peds can do , how they can change you , make you that little bit faster and stronger , then when you get the peds put into the body of an out and out caaant , who takes them , cheats and fights older past it guys , a guy who dispite having a handpicked win against older slower , past it boxers , still has enough of a caaant in him to dance over the prone body of his VICTIM and lets have it right VICTIM is the right word . Well then they are dangerous ,

Only way to stop it is make the penalty very very severe , put it in the contract money held in trust , when peds are cleared money paid , , if failed minimum 4 year ban , straight to jail do not pass go , no exceptions second time life time ban .

If anyone hurt during the fight where a fighter has took them , instant criminal action for GBH or whatever is suitable

Victim is the right word in any boxing match when you knock someone out.

It's a sport where the idea is to hurt the other guy before he hurts you.

No room for softies in this sport.

[Controversial]

In 2002 Fernando Vargas tested positive for PED's, Oscar De La Hoya didn't.

Remind me again. Who won that fight?

Of course it doesn’t guarantee you will win but that’s not really the point. It’s potentially giving an advantage you wouldn’t have if you didn’t take it so it’s cheating. Not everyone wants to take drugs.

Not everyone has to either.

You're gonna win or you're gonna lose because you're a better fighter.

People can try everything they can think of to give themselves an extra edge, but at the end of the day, the better fighter is USUALLY gonna win the fight.

It’s hard to say because there are likely lots of examples of fighters who were juiced up and won, they just weren’t caught. PEDS can help with cutting weight so could also give a big size advantage on fight night. If PEDS didn’t give an advantage no one would take them.

[coneye]

The better fighter will prevail is flawed ,, Course he will IF there the better fighter , example anyone on this forum wants to challenge Froch or AJ , juice all you want your probably gonna get knocked the fooook out simple , because i suspect there gonna be the better fighter , unless Usyk posts on here under a false name .

But the problem is when you get two guys who are within reach of each other , the peds just simply give one an unfair advantage .

Benn is a perfect example of what the peds can do , how they can change you , make you that little bit faster and stronger , then when you get the peds put into the body of an out and out caaant , who takes them , cheats and fights older past it guys , a guy who dispite having a handpicked win against older slower , past it boxers , still has enough of a caaant in him to dance over the prone body of his VICTIM and lets have it right VICTIM is the right word . Well then they are dangerous ,

Only way to stop it is make the penalty very very severe , put it in the contract money held in trust , when peds are cleared money paid , , if failed minimum 4 year ban , straight to jail do not pass go , no exceptions second time life time ban .

If anyone hurt during the fight where a fighter has took them , instant criminal action for GBH or whatever is suitable

Victim is the right word in any boxing match when you knock someone out.

It's a sport where the idea is to hurt the other guy before he hurts you.

No room for softies in this sport.

Not really , 50-50 fight between 2 combatants who know what there getting into , is fair , when it relies on skills , training ect ect ,, when one cheats to get an unfair and ILLIGAL advantage the word victim can then come into play ,

You and i have an argument in a pub , decide to go outside and settle it in the carpark , NON of us are victims , bit silly maybee but not victims ,

However i purposly bump you , spill your drink , , insult your wife knowing that you will want to settle it outside , but i have mates waiting behind a bush , your a victim ,,, can't dismiss it and say no room for softies in the carpark

[gilgamesh]

The better fighter will prevail is flawed ,, Course he will IF there the better fighter , example anyone on this forum wants to challenge Froch or AJ , juice all you want your probably gonna get knocked the fooook out simple , because i suspect there gonna be the better fighter , unless Usyk posts on here under a false name .

But the problem is when you get two guys who are within reach of each other , the peds just simply give one an unfair advantage .

Benn is a perfect example of what the peds can do , how they can change you , make you that little bit faster and stronger , then when you get the peds put into the body of an out and out caaant , who takes them , cheats and fights older past it guys , a guy who dispite having a handpicked win against older slower , past it boxers , still has enough of a caaant in him to dance over the prone body of his VICTIM and lets have it right VICTIM is the right word . Well then they are dangerous ,

Only way to stop it is make the penalty very very severe , put it in the contract money held in trust , when peds are cleared money paid , , if failed minimum 4 year ban , straight to jail do not pass go , no exceptions second time life time ban .

If anyone hurt during the fight where a fighter has took them , instant criminal action for GBH or whatever is suitable

Victim is the right word in any boxing match when you knock someone out.

It's a sport where the idea is to hurt the other guy before he hurts you.

No room for softies in this sport.

Not really , 50-50 fight between 2 combatants who know what there getting into , is fair , when it relies on skills , training ect ect ,, when one cheats to get an unfair and ILLIGAL advantage the word victim can then come into play ,

You and i have an argument in a pub , decide to go outside and settle it in the carpark , NON of us are victims , bit silly maybee but not victims ,

However i purposly bump you , spill your drink , , insult your wife knowing that you will want to settle it outside , but i have mates waiting behind a bush , your a victim ,,, can't dismiss it and say no room for softies in the carpark

Not the same thing at all.

A Boxing match is 1 on 1.

[margaret thatcher]

its like a video game and your guy is an 70 rating, then he enters a ped cheat code to become a 80

it doesn't meaan he's gonna beat a 90 or higher rated guy, but now he can beat 75 rated guys and not be so badly beaten by 85 rated guys

[gilgamesh]

Of course it doesn’t guarantee you will win but that’s not really the point. It’s potentially giving an advantage you wouldn’t have if you didn’t take it so it’s cheating. Not everyone wants to take drugs.

Not everyone has to either.

You're gonna win or you're gonna lose because you're a better fighter.

People can try everything they can think of to give themselves an extra edge, but at the end of the day, the better fighter is USUALLY gonna win the fight.

It’s hard to say because there are likely lots of examples of fighters who were juiced up and won, they just weren’t caught. PEDS can help with cutting weight so could also give a big size advantage on fight night. If PEDS didn’t give an advantage no one would take them.

I would think not, and my hat goes off to the ones that know how to play the game and not get caught.

I'm never gonna look at 'em as "Those dirty cheaters" like some of you do. This whole sport is a Black eye on Humanity to begin with when you really think about it. What's it matter if it's not righteous and pure. The very idea of it to begin with isn't.

Hey fellas. Let's pit 2 guys against each other, and let 'em fight until one of 'em is bleeding and unconscious, possibly in need of immediate medical care. Let's do that so we can be entertained, and bet on the outcome.

But for God's sake. Don't let these guys take drugs that might help them improve. That would be barbaric.

Boxing by it's very nature is a reflection of our World. Our World isn't pure.

If our World ever strives to become a truly pure and honest place. Boxing will not be a part of it. So enjoy the debauchery. It's what we want. We're human.

[Controversial]

Not everyone has to either.

You're gonna win or you're gonna lose because you're a better fighter.

People can try everything they can think of to give themselves an extra edge, but at the end of the day, the better fighter is USUALLY gonna win the fight.

It’s hard to say because there are likely lots of examples of fighters who were juiced up and won, they just weren’t caught. PEDS can help with cutting weight so could also give a big size advantage on fight night. If PEDS didn’t give an advantage no one would take them.

I would think not, and my hat goes off to the ones that know how to play the game and not get caught.

I'm never gonna look at 'em as "Those dirty cheaters" like some of you do. This whole sport is a Black eye on Humanity to begin with when you really think about it. What's it matter if it's not righteous and pure. The very idea of it to begin with isn't.

Hey fellas. Let's pit 2 guys against each other, and let 'em fight until one of 'em is bleeding and unconscious, possibly in need of immediate medical care. Let's do that so we can be entertained, and bet on the outcome.

But for God's sake. Don't let these guys take drugs that might help them improve. That would be barbaric.

Boxing by it's very nature is a reflection of our World. Our World isn't pure.

If our World ever strives to become a truly pure and honest place. Boxing will not be a part of it. So enjoy the debauchery. It's what we want. We're human.

But isn’t that the point, the sport is barbaric and dangerous. Make it safer not more dangerous

[gilgamesh]

We simply approach life from different mindsets my friend. We're not gonna agree on this.

[coneye]

Victim is the right word in any boxing match when you knock someone out.

It's a sport where the idea is to hurt the other guy before he hurts you.

No room for softies in this sport.

Not really , 50-50 fight between 2 combatants who know what there getting into , is fair , when it relies on skills , training ect ect ,, when one cheats to get an unfair and ILLIGAL advantage the word victim can then come into play ,

You and i have an argument in a pub , decide to go outside and settle it in the carpark , NON of us are victims , bit silly maybee but not victims ,

However i purposly bump you , spill your drink , , insult your wife knowing that you will want to settle it outside , but i have mates waiting behind a bush , your a victim ,,, can't dismiss it and say no room for softies in the carpark

Not the same thing at all.

A Boxing match is 1 on 1.

Peds is still illigal and cheating , gives an unfair advantage is my point , either legalize them anything goes or make the penaltys very very severe

[Cask]

He's a teenager in a lot of those fights in that first video, not exactly fighting cream of world class crop back then but guys like Tank Abbott at no weight limit was no joke, Wanderlei Silva KO,d in 44 seconds. He was a machine with just a doctor's pass for TRT/HRT. That's why they called him the phenom, really it was just superhuman amounts of Testosterone and Hormones, of course that gives you the strength of a Grizzly if you already have too much power and speed for guys bigger, more experienced than you

[Controversial]

If you made PEDS a free for all then I’m assuming the gains would be even greater as people would take higher doses which would give more extreme results.

[Redback Rasta]

Surprise, surprise, Helenius claims he isn't guilty :

"I want to say something very clear in my own words right now with absolutely no exception. I did not use any performance enhancement now or ever. I have been tested my entire career.

I was just told that I tested positive for the presence of a non-steroid substance in my system and I wanted to send an immediate direct message to Anthony Joshua and boxing fans that I didn’t cheat and never would.

I volunteer to work with VADA and the BBBofC to do whatever it takes to clear my name.”

Nobody is ever guilty, ever, ever. Must be the testers getting it wrong every single time :lol:

[margaret thatcher]

Surprise, surprise, Helenius claims he isn't guilty :

"I want to say something very clear in my own words right now with absolutely no exception. I did not use any performance enhancement now or ever. I have been tested my entire career.

I was just told that I tested positive for the presence of a non-steroid substance in my system and I wanted to send an immediate direct message to Anthony Joshua and boxing fans that I didn’t cheat and never would.

I volunteer to work with VADA and the BBBofC to do whatever it takes to clear my name.”

Nobody is ever guilty, ever, ever. Must be the testers getting it wrong every single time

rob joining the fury and co club

[Redback Rasta]

If you made PEDS a free for all then I’m assuming the gains would be even greater as people would take higher doses which would give more extreme results.

I don't think there's any doubt about.

The number of cases of CTE (punch drunkedness) would decline because many boxers would be dying due to the amount of performance enhancing drugs their bodies had been subjected to before CTE had the chance to set in.

[veriton]

One place to start would be to remove any caught cheat from the International Boxing Hall of Fame. These people are being actively celebrated.

[cormack]

its kind of ironic that whyte was pulled for an adverse result only to replaced by helenius who must have shopped at the same chemist or wild boar meat farm

[Boxerbeetle]

I really don’t see why VADA testing isn’t compulsory for all shows over a certain level. Definitely for anything on PPV. If they’re going to rip off the public with extra charges, at least a portion of the profits should be put to good use.

[Redback Rasta]

I really don’t see why VADA testing isn’t compulsory for all shows over a certain level. Definitely for anything on PPV. If they’re going to rip off the public with extra charges, at least a portion of the profits should be put to good use.

Agree with you in principal but what's the point of VADA notifying of a positive test and boxing not wanting to know about it?

[The Gratest]

Does this make AJ's win over a PED boosted Helenius better than Wilder's win over standard Helenius?