Beterbiev and the Atypical VADA result

[coneye]

This might be just me but,
A 40 year old destroying all oppo. A killer on the march until when?

Is this real?

I’m a bit cynical on this.

Unless the Light Heavy roster is so devoid of talent.

I dunno. I wanna believe.
.

Lets bring it back , a LOT OF LEVELS , in fact right back to novice level , i was approached 2 years ago by a guy 36 he wanted to box , i told him naaaw your too old , waay to old to start , i only want 1 maybee 2 bouts he said just to complete a dream , he trained antyway , he got my attention , i took him on pads and thought fook me this guy can bang , i said i'll train you for just one or two fights at masters novice level , anyway first thing i noticed after 2-3 months of just having him do nothing but basics for 3-4 months , was the guys a natural show him once , and he picked it up , started taking him for sparring , 2 nd thing i noticed no matter where i took him NO ONE except the bigger more experienced ameteurs would spar him , he just hit too hard , , the only ones who could handle him were experienced guys who were bigger , 7 months and put him in , turned out he was too young for the masters , so he went in the mainstream , first fight opponent 24 , 4 fights 2-2 ,, he won ko in about 30 seconds , 2nd fight opponent 23 4 fights 4 wins , he won ko rnd 1 , then give it away thanked me profusly said he had done his dream , gonna go back to concentrating on work and kids ,

It was dedication , determination and natural power enebled hm to achieve his dream plus the ability to absorb and retain information age was just a number with this guy , but age gave him a maturity over others , he is a bricklayer and a tough hard man , and did'nt matter how good they were he just walked through them cracked them and took there confidence , guy is a machine , i wish e had come to me at 15 , .

Point being take a guy with a similar mindset and 100's of ameteur fights , dedication you could'nt believe , talent like the rest of us can nly dream we have , self confidence and hardness thats not natural , and you have a 39 Beiterbiev , there rare but they are out there , me i don't knock it i just watch and admire

And its got e fooked why Bert is russian so he's a cheat , when he's not been caught taking anything , but british fighters are ok even when caught . , facts are Bert is just a strong hard man with immense experience and even more talent

I get that and total respect for your post.
I’m not in the Liam Smith “throwback shade” camp.
It’s just a bit of an anomaly at this level.
Big George did it in his mid forties but he was paired fair. Until.
How many other 40+ year olds are wrecking balls?
It’s not a Russian thing. It’s a whats going on thing?.

Can totally understand your thinking , but we are talking here about a guy who has spent his whole life excercising , staying in shape and practicing his footwork , distancing and craft , and remember Smith was not a war to him just a routine workout , in fact Smith was an easy nights work for BB , i said it before its levels and BB was always levels above him , i think its easy to just say , BB must be on something rather than Smith just is'nt all that good at the super Elite level , and he's not Bivol would probably bet Smith easier , , Bivol is another one who just knows his trade so well , the correct methods and ways have been drumed into these two since they were kids .

Remenber the saying practice makes perfect , great saying a lot of english trainers agree with ,, rusian trainers bringing there kids up don't agree , they will tell you ONLY PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT .

And there lies the difference

[polecateddy]

What’s all this jabbering about? Russia had a widely reported state sponsored doping program that more or less coincides with Beterbiev’s entire amateur career! Lol

[Controversial]

seems Atypical is pretty much along them lines , and he was retested and NOTHING TO SEE but does mean he's clean well the answer to that is YES because he was tested and tested again and found CLEAN

Except we know passing tests doesn’t mean you are 100% clean. Most are when tested but the cheaters know how to go under the radar, Lance Armstrong passed hundreds of them.

[coneye]

What’s all this jabbering about? Russia had a widely reported state sponsored doping program that more or less coincides with Beterbiev’s entire amateur career! Lol

Yes no one will dispute that , i'd say have a good look at the cubans has well , see the size of some of them for there weight , but he's lived in Canada for the last 10 years , been tested numerous times and has far has I know and YOU know ,, he's not been found positive ONCE ,,, is he on it , i don't know , but just cos he's russian does'nt mean he's guilty .

Want to throw stones at boxers bevcause of nationality , throw them right wear they will land , British boxers , but look at AJ , is he guilty answer is NO well not yet at least

Only thing to me that stands out here is the guy is another level technicly than ANY british boxer , i say until he's tested positive and proved he's actually taking them , give the guy credit for the 25 years or so of hard work and PERFECT PRACTICE he has put in , don't knock him just because he flogged a british boxer who in honesty was at that level because of his promoter hand picking the right fights , Smith has never ever been in the same standard has the Beitreves and Bivol's , i'd say put him in with Bivol and watch him get destroyed quicker ,, theres levels and because he's (smith )not at that level its no reason to say BB is cheating

[Boxerbeetle]

They're all on it.

[gregregegg]

It’s super dodgey.

The problem is the testing body’s have no reason to actualy nail people unless the public, other fighters, and other promoters are screaming for it, and boycotting….


Look at this situation for example…. If you go after someone on a grey area… prevent a Saudi undisputed fight and get sued by beter b, top rank, Bivol and matchroom for missed earnings on the undisputed fight….

If you just do nothing you get a few people say “bit odd”, promoters are keen to book you again cause it’s less likely you will catch there guy, and you just keep on trucking…

[coneye]

They're all on it.

Probably are but until they have tested positive we , cannot say for sure , But if he is , then i would say so is Smith , based on the fact there seems to be more british caught recently , and look at the size of him and the weight he fights at , BUT it does'nt matter , both on , both off , facts are facts his skills were not has good and he got flogged it was an easy night at the office for BB , so they don't need to cry , about it they simply were not good enough .
can't say BB is on it based on he's russian and they had a doping program when he was ameteur 15 years ago and he's strong for his weight , unles you say Smith is on it because he's british and its prevelent with British profesionals at the moment and he's massive for the weight ,

I will not say anyone is or is'nt but i do say if your gonna throw stones and accuse do it evenly , Don'y just throw them at someone because they are a BETTER BOXER, I really did'nt see anything about BB to suggest he is , i mean watch it again was he super fast , has he only just developed power , is he a monster for the weight , NO to all he just used FAR FAR superior technique , and footwork to create distance and angles , he hit harder like he has his whole carreer , and he was tougher which you would expect from someone who has boxed trained and sparred his whole life , remember over 300 ameteur fights

[leejonesjnr]

It’s super dodgey.

The problem is the testing body’s have no reason to actualy nail people unless the public, other fighters, and other promoters are screaming for it, and boycotting….


Look at this situation for example…. If you go after someone on a grey area… prevent a Saudi undisputed fight and get sued by beter b, top rank, Bivol and matchroom for missed earnings on the undisputed fight….

If you just do nothing you get a few people say “bit odd”, promoters are keen to book you again cause it’s less likely you will catch there guy, and you just keep on trucking…

Hang on, so VADA are dirty?

[TheLeprechaun]

Look at how the fight finished, Callum gets tagged over his jab. Beterbiev didn't just pull that punch out of his a$$, he probably knew that would happen way before it did. He sets himself in a good position if you just watch how hes moving prior to the punch. Callum also over reaches because of it. Just a great judges of distance is Beterbiev. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the reason Ward retired when he did. Beterbiev picked up his vacant belt a few months after his retirement...

[gregregegg]

It’s super dodgey.

The problem is the testing body’s have no reason to actualy nail people unless the public, other fighters, and other promoters are screaming for it, and boycotting….


Look at this situation for example…. If you go after someone on a grey area… prevent a Saudi undisputed fight and get sued by beter b, top rank, Bivol and matchroom for missed earnings on the undisputed fight….

If you just do nothing you get a few people say “bit odd”, promoters are keen to book you again cause it’s less likely you will catch there guy, and you just keep on trucking…

Hang on, so VADA are dirty?

I wouldn’t say dirty, I would say all testing agency’s are risk averse…

Vada gave benn an excuse… he rejected it they still cleared him. Why? Mabey they got paid off but I doubt it… I’d say it’s far more likely they got legal threats and just decided to walk away…

I believe if there was zero risk of legal action, and promoters had to book testing from an agency, that agency would be banning many more people than we currently see.

To me it feels like if you can create annnny grey area or excuse they will let you go.

[margaret thatcher]

do vada actually make punitive judgements on ppl? i thought they just collected, tested, and reported what's there, and then someone else decides what to do with it

tbh im not sure theres a better alterntative atm. i remember jean pascal refusing vada testing and yelling that people needed to join him doing usada. and then finally he had to do vada and got caught for sh!t he'd been getting away with

[handsofstone]

Sneaky facking Russians

[Controversial]

Generally speaking of course if someone is a great fighter and technically better than most then that is key but that’s not to say PEDs don’t give them an extra edge and help their recovery and strength. The worst boxer in the world could be juiced to the gills but still unable to box.

[tonyevs]

Nobody is disputing Beterbiev is a great fighter - and only the odd few here not doubting he is taking illegal PEDs to aid his longevity to remain at the top.

Cycling is one of the most stringently tested sports out there. Yet they still catch the top guys of the sport occasionally ... OK, like boxing they often have good enough legal teams to get off it. But it just goes to show that the rewards of using illegal PEDs still outweigh the risks ... in a dirty sport like boxing I don`t doubt its rife for one second.

[leejonesjnr]

It’s super dodgey.

The problem is the testing body’s have no reason to actualy nail people unless the public, other fighters, and other promoters are screaming for it, and boycotting….


Look at this situation for example…. If you go after someone on a grey area… prevent a Saudi undisputed fight and get sued by beter b, top rank, Bivol and matchroom for missed earnings on the undisputed fight….

If you just do nothing you get a few people say “bit odd”, promoters are keen to book you again cause it’s less likely you will catch there guy, and you just keep on trucking…

Hang on, so VADA are dirty?

I wouldn’t say dirty, I would say all testing agency’s are risk averse…

Vada gave benn an excuse… he rejected it they still cleared him. Why? Mabey they got paid off but I doubt it… I’d say it’s far more likely they got legal threats and just decided to walk away…

I believe if there was zero risk of legal action, and promoters had to book testing from an agency, that agency would be banning many more people than we currently see.

To me it feels like if you can create annnny grey area or excuse they will let you go.

Nope.

[polecateddy]

Generally speaking of course if someone is a great fighter and technically better than most then that is key but that’s not to say PEDs don’t give them an extra edge and help their recovery and strength. The worst boxer in the world could be juiced to the gills but still unable to box.

Steroids generally benefit athletes the most who are relying on fast twitch muscle fibres, which of course big punches need. As you say he was phenomenal already, a genetic elite etc so a good PED regime may well have bolted on another 15-20% of performance.

[Controversial]

Eubank Jr tweeting about it

Me & Liam ain’t mates by any means but I gota back him up on this one… it’s such a f***ing joke how many of these FRAUD fighters are getting popped for PED’s & are still able to enter a ring & fight. Lifetime bans for these scumbags should be mandatory #KeepBoxingClean

[jameswilson]

Someone’s said above is Vada dirty. When you watch the documentary’s that came out a few years ago about how the drug testers were so corrupt they had people on the inside swapping samples etc it isn’t out of the bounds of reason to think this happened with Vada as well.

There’s been a load of Russians I’ve seen the last few weeks and you’d be an idiot to say ‘well the ain’t tested positive’ we’re talking pudenda with heads so square and eyebrows that you could rest your f ucking beer on.

There was one who Ben show off beat at the Olympics on the weekend. Knocked a Polish guy out. Look at his head and tell me you’re sure he isn’t smacked up to his tits on gear. Anyone who’s been in a gym and seen the roid heads and the side effects they suffer will know it.

We have it in our system too. There’s a decent Cruiserweight of ours fighting soon who has slight bitch tits. I always thought Dillian Whyte had classic bitch tit chest. He was muscular as hell throughout his upper body but somehow had softness in the chest.


The thing to point out is how long this thread has taken to get going and yet if it was Conor Benn it would be 40 pages deep by now.

[cormack]

Maybe he’s on a TRT dose?

Anyway, who gives a shit, British fighters are very hypocritical. Overseas fighter having drug test anomalies or adverse findings and they can’t shut up about it.

Fury tests positive for Nandrolone. The moron Whyte tests positive for Dianabol and then fails another test. Yet barely a word about that.

Conor Benn tests positive for Clomid, a drug that is used specifically to restart testosterone production after steroid usage and apparently he’s just eaten too many eggs.

The double standards here are embarrassing.

theres been plenty said here about Fury / Whyte and Benn as well as Canelo and the various pills potions and Boar meat .

[Controversial]

Conor Benn tests positive for Clomid, a drug that is used specifically to restart testosterone production after steroid usage and apparently he’s just eaten too many eggs.

The double standards here are embarrassing.

The Benn thread was over 60 pages long and he gets absolutely slated by most people, I don’t recall anyone defending the egg theory.

[polecateddy]

I wonder what sort of appeal UKAD made? If it was to the High Court it will probably take ages.

[gregregegg]

Hang on, so VADA are dirty?

I wouldn’t say dirty, I would say all testing agency’s are risk averse…

Vada gave benn an excuse… he rejected it they still cleared him. Why? Mabey they got paid off but I doubt it… I’d say it’s far more likely they got legal threats and just decided to walk away…

I believe if there was zero risk of legal action, and promoters had to book testing from an agency, that agency would be banning many more people than we currently see.

To me it feels like if you can create annnny grey area or excuse they will let you go.

Nope.

So you don’t think the prospect of expensive legal battles influences testing agenceys at all?

Look at how many people get off, or get mellow agreed deals….

Miller got busted proper, who else? No one?

Canelo got an easy deal, fury got an easy deal, Whyte has got east deals befor (twice), benn got an easy deal (from vada bbboc not so sure) baumgarderner getting an easy deal, Ortiz I think, plus all the ones we never even hear about because of easy deals.

All these people could have got hard enforced bans (not saying they have to be 5 year bans, but just any actual ban of note…)
Instead they got 6 months, 2 years backdated, nothing, eggs, nothing ect ect ect.

Why? Probably because if you get someone to agree to a ban, they can’t sue you for it.

[leejonesjnr]

I wouldn’t say dirty, I would say all testing agency’s are risk averse…

Vada gave benn an excuse… he rejected it they still cleared him. Why? Mabey they got paid off but I doubt it… I’d say it’s far more likely they got legal threats and just decided to walk away…

I believe if there was zero risk of legal action, and promoters had to book testing from an agency, that agency would be banning many more people than we currently see.

To me it feels like if you can create annnny grey area or excuse they will let you go.

Nope.

So you don’t think the prospect of expensive legal battles influences testing agenceys at all?

Look at how many people get off, or get mellow agreed deals….

Miller got busted proper, who else? No one?

Canelo got an easy deal, fury got an easy deal, Whyte has got east deals befor (twice), benn got an easy deal (from vada bbboc not so sure) baumgarderner getting an easy deal, Ortiz I think, plus all the ones we never even hear about because of easy deals.

All these people could have got hard enforced bans (not saying they have to be 5 year bans, but just any actual ban of note…)
Instead they got 6 months, 2 years backdated, nothing, eggs, nothing ect ect ect.

Why? Probably because if you get someone to agree to a ban, they can’t sue you for it.

VADA don’t have anything to do with punishments etc. They do tests and report to whomever paid them to do so.
VADA did not suggest an excuse to Benn.

[gregregegg]

Nope.

So you don’t think the prospect of expensive legal battles influences testing agenceys at all?

Look at how many people get off, or get mellow agreed deals….

Miller got busted proper, who else? No one?

Canelo got an easy deal, fury got an easy deal, Whyte has got east deals befor (twice), benn got an easy deal (from vada bbboc not so sure) baumgarderner getting an easy deal, Ortiz I think, plus all the ones we never even hear about because of easy deals.

All these people could have got hard enforced bans (not saying they have to be 5 year bans, but just any actual ban of note…)
Instead they got 6 months, 2 years backdated, nothing, eggs, nothing ect ect ect.

Why? Probably because if you get someone to agree to a ban, they can’t sue you for it.

VADA don’t have anything to do with punishments etc. They do tests and report to whomever paid them to do so.
VADA did not suggest an excuse to Benn.

But vada give the excuses… and I’m not specifically talking about vada, I’m more broadly talking about testing ageneceys in combo with commissions being scared…

[SeanBrennan]

I think Artur is brilliant.

I also think he is very likely to have used PEDS and doped throughout hid amateur and pro career. Steroids are so widely used. He's banging growth and other testosterone-derivative compounds.

Do we know? No.

But I think he is. Especially since he comes from a country with a state-embedded steroid programme throughout all its ranks am and pro.

And moving to Canada for your pro career is no bar to PEDing. Ask Jean Pascal.

Or Ben Johnson...