Tyson Fury … how good is he?

[margaret thatcher]

go back a few years to when he was fighting otto wallin?

what did he do there that he cant do now?

its feasible that fury has slowed some, but same for usyk, he's 2 years older than fury and struggled majorly with injury

[Grilling Machine]

Otter beats rabbit.

[gilgamesh]

agree he hasnt been good to his body though. i do think he managed to find close to his best form however

fury is a handful in any era, but defo not beating everyone in history

In fairness. Nobody is beating everyone in history.

i agree, although many people think differently

if you go through the records even of most greats, you'll find many hiccups along the way. when people talk mythical fights there's a tendency to way overdo the extreme, 'he smashes them all' / beats them all type outcomes. but in reality there are plenty of cases of very good fighters losing to b level guys, then beating elite opponents, and all sorts of in between.

There's always that guy that for whatever reason is just all wrong for you. Jack Dempsey for instance had "Fat" Willie Meehan. Who he couldn't find the answer for.

[margaret thatcher]

ya true, otters can be vicious adorable things

[Grilling Machine]

There's always that guy that for whatever reason is just all wrong for you. Jack Dempsey for instance had "Fat" Willie Meehan. Who he couldn't find the answer for.

Except when that one guy's the same bloke for everyone! Dubois' come the closest, interestingly.

[ironbeard]

I strongly disagree with those who consider this a poor era of HW boxing. On the contrary, this is a strong era. It has been for about 5 years:

Usyk
Fury
AJ
Parker
Hrgovic
Zhang
Kabayel
Anderson
Dubois
Wilder
Joyce
Ajagba
Bakole
Sanchez
Ruiz Jr
Huni
Whyte

It is a relatively deep HW div. The top end has more than a handful of fighters who could compete and possibly win belts in any era.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I strongly disagree with those who consider this a poor era of HW boxing. On the contrary, this is a strong era. It has been for about 5 years:

Usyk
Fury
AJ
Parker
Hrgovic
Zhang
Kabayel
Anderson
Dubois
Wilder
Joyce
Ajagba
Bakole
Sanchez
Ruiz Jr
Huni
Whyte

It is a relatively deep HW div. The top end has more than a handful of fighters who could compete and possibly win belts in any era.

Are you serious?

[gilgamesh]

I strongly disagree with those who consider this a poor era of HW boxing. On the contrary, this is a strong era. It has been for about 5 years:

Usyk
Fury
AJ
Parker
Hrgovic
Zhang
Kabayel
Anderson
Dubois
Wilder
Joyce
Ajagba
Bakole
Sanchez
Ruiz Jr
Huni
Whyte

It is a relatively deep HW div. The top end has more than a handful of fighters who could compete and possibly win belts in any era.

Are you serious?

This absolutely is one of the better eras of Heavyweight Boxing in my opinion. If the 70's and 90's are the Holy grail...and they are. Then the era from like 2016 to now has been as good as any other that I can think of honestly.

I mean do you honestly think these guys are tougher than Joe Louis' opponents during his reign? You think these guys couldn't handle Archie Moore or Ezzard Charles during Marciano's era?

I do believe objectively that this is one of the best eras of Heavyweights certainly of the last 100 years.

It is a superior Heavyweight division overall than the one that was going on when I first started following the sport in the 2000's, and it's better than it was throughout Wladimir's reign. Wladimir was a great Champion, but he didn't have a contender pool this deep to fight against unfortunately.

[Boxerbeetle]

That list is piss poor outside the top 3 names.

[gilgamesh]

That list is piss poor outside the top 3 names.

Does that not go for most eras though?

[Boxerbeetle]

That list is piss poor outside the top 3 names.

Does that not go for most eras though?

Not necessarily, I'd say there's usually a lot more depth. Admittedly this is much better than the 2000s which was diabolical.

[gilgamesh]

That list is piss poor outside the top 3 names.

Does that not go for most eras though?

Not necessarily, I'd say there's usually a lot more depth. Admittedly this is much better than the 2000s which was diabolical.

Alright. Rocky Marciano's title defenses were against Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore, Roland Lastarza. Guys like that. You think Joe Joyce couldn't beat some of those guys? And he's like what....the 15th best right now?

Ingemar Johansson. Former Heavyweight Champion. You think Daniel Dubois couldn't mop the floor with him?

Trevor Berbick. A Champion in the 80's. Joseph Parker is at least that good, if not better.

Point is, the guys that are quite a few notches down the ladder right now are conceivable as being a threat in a different time.

[ironbeard]

I strongly disagree with those who consider this a poor era of HW boxing. On the contrary, this is a strong era. It has been for about 5 years:

Usyk
Fury
AJ
Parker
Hrgovic
Zhang
Kabayel
Anderson
Dubois
Wilder
Joyce
Ajagba
Bakole
Sanchez
Ruiz Jr
Huni
Whyte

It is a relatively deep HW div. The top end has more than a handful of fighters who could compete and possibly win belts in any era.

Are you serious?

Absolutely.

Usyk, Fury, AJ, Parker, and Hrgovic would compete well in any era.

[Boxerbeetle]

Does that not go for most eras though?

Not necessarily, I'd say there's usually a lot more depth. Admittedly this is much better than the 2000s which was diabolical.

Alright. Rocky Marciano's title defenses were against Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore, Roland Lastarza. Guys like that. You think Joe Joyce couldn't beat some of those guys? And he's like what....the 15th best right now?

Ingemar Johansson. Former Heavyweight Champion. You think Daniel Dubois couldn't mop the floor with him?

Trevor Berbick. A Champion in the 80's. Joseph Parker is at least that good, if not better.

Point is, the guys that are quite a few notches down the ladder right now are conceivable as being a threat in a different time.

Ezzard Charles vs Joe Joyce would be really interesting actually

[ironbeard]

That list is piss poor outside the top 3 names.

White, Parker, Hrgovic, Kayabel, Dubois, Joyce, Anderson, and even Wilder would be competitive in the top 15 in pretty much any era.

[Grilling Machine]

It's a superficially deep era, with too little cross-pollination to make informed calls on where the majority place. After Usyk the heavyweight rankings are wide open.

[ironbeard]

It's a superficially deep era, with too little cross-pollination to make informed calls on where the majority place. After Usyk the heavyweight rankings are wide open.

I understand your point but it is disregarding today’s reality, imo. It was accurate not so long ago but now we have Kabayel v Sanchez, Parker v Zhang and Wilderand anyone else who will get in the ring with him., Wilder v Zhang, Dubois v Hrgovic, Joyce v Parker and Zhang.

Largely, we have The Absolute Monarchy to thank for the resurgence of the HW div “cross pollination.”

[jamesmcdonnell]

It's a superficially deep era, with too little cross-pollination to make informed calls on where the majority place. After Usyk the heavyweight rankings are wide open.

I understand your point but it is disregarding today’s reality, imo. It was accurate not so long ago but now we have Kabayel v Sanchez, Parker v Zhang and Wilderand anyone else who will get in the ring with him., Wilder v Zhang, Dubois v Hrgovic, Joyce v Parker and Zhang.

Largely, we have The Absolute Monarchy to thank for the resurgence of the HW div “cross pollination.”

There are a few more coming through now, but there's still loads of old stagers in the top of the rankings.

What worries me is guys like Anderson - why is he fighting so infrequently, at this stage in his career? He's only managed 3 fight in 2023, and one so far this year. He doesn't seem that committed.

[si7dog7]

I strongly disagree with those who consider this a poor era of HW boxing. On the contrary, this is a strong era. It has been for about 5 years:

Usyk
Fury
AJ
Parker
Hrgovic
Zhang
Kabayel
Anderson
Dubois
Wilder
Joyce
Ajagba
Bakole
Sanchez
Ruiz Jr
Huni
Whyte

It is a relatively deep HW div. The top end has more than a handful of fighters who could compete and possibly win belts in any era.

It really isn’t.
“Possibly Win belts in any era?” Possibly is the word there but,
Who and what era?

[jamesmcdonnell]

I strongly disagree with those who consider this a poor era of HW boxing. On the contrary, this is a strong era. It has been for about 5 years:

Usyk
Fury
AJ
Parker
Hrgovic
Zhang
Kabayel
Anderson
Dubois
Wilder
Joyce
Ajagba
Bakole
Sanchez
Ruiz Jr
Huni
Whyte

It is a relatively deep HW div. The top end has more than a handful of fighters who could compete and possibly win belts in any era.

It really isn’t.
“Possibly Win belts in any era?” Possibly is the word there but,
Who and what era?

I think the fact that 42 year Zhang is at the top of the sport speaks volumes. Wilder too - he managed to win belts because of a lack of decent skills in the division.

[si7dog7]

I strongly disagree with those who consider this a poor era of HW boxing. On the contrary, this is a strong era. It has been for about 5 years:

Usyk
Fury
AJ
Parker
Hrgovic
Zhang
Kabayel
Anderson
Dubois
Wilder
Joyce
Ajagba
Bakole
Sanchez
Ruiz Jr
Huni
Whyte

It is a relatively deep HW div. The top end has more than a handful of fighters who could compete and possibly win belts in any era.

It really isn’t.
“Possibly Win belts in any era?” Possibly is the word there but,
Who and what era?

I think the fact that 42 year Zhang is at the top of the sport speaks volumes. Wilder too - he managed to win belts because of a lack of decent skills in the division.

James
Common sense.
How this is a stacked division I don’t know.

There are fights we wanna see.

Outta that rogues gallery.

Fury v AJ
Wilder v AJ
Anderson v Dubois. (If he gets past Hrg)

Then I’m struggling.

Still hope Usyk retires though. 37. Done it. Adios Chico.

[jamesmcdonnell]

It really isn’t.
“Possibly Win belts in any era?” Possibly is the word there but,
Who and what era?

I think the fact that 42 year Zhang is at the top of the sport speaks volumes. Wilder too - he managed to win belts because of a lack of decent skills in the division.

James
Common sense.
How this is a stacked division I don’t know.

There are fights we wanna see.

Outta that rogues gallery.

Fury v AJ
Wilder v AJ
Anderson v Dubois. (If he gets past Hrg)

Then I’m struggling.

Still hope Usyk retires though. 37. Done it. Adios Chico.

Yeah, I mean, not a lot of evidence to suggest Anderson is anything more than Michael Grant - he doesn't seem to have the hunger, I mean he's already been talking about retirement FFS, he's not even achieved anything yet!

Wilder is what, 37, AJ turns 35 shortly i think. Usyk 37. Dubois is young, but limited, and I think will lose every time he faces someone who can box a bit. I mean he made Joyce look like fckng Willie Pep.

[jwfg]

I strongly disagree with those who consider this a poor era of HW boxing. On the contrary, this is a strong era. It has been for about 5 years:

Usyk
Fury
AJ
Parker
Hrgovic
Zhang
Kabayel
Anderson
Dubois
Wilder
Joyce
Ajagba
Bakole
Sanchez
Ruiz Jr
Huni
Whyte

It is a relatively deep HW div. The top end has more than a handful of fighters who could compete and possibly win belts in any era.

Are you serious?

I think he is.

[Controversial]

I think the fact that 42 year Zhang is at the top of the sport speaks volumes. Wilder too - he managed to win belts because of a lack of decent skills in the division.

James
Common sense.
How this is a stacked division I don’t know.

There are fights we wanna see.

Outta that rogues gallery.

Fury v AJ
Wilder v AJ
Anderson v Dubois. (If he gets past Hrg)

Then I’m struggling.

Still hope Usyk retires though. 37. Done it. Adios Chico.

Yeah, I mean, not a lot of evidence to suggest Anderson is anything more than Michael Grant - he doesn't seem to have the hunger, I mean he's already been talking about retirement FFS, he's not even achieved anything yet!

Wilder is what, 37, AJ turns 35 shortly i think. Usyk 37. Dubois is young, but limited, and I think will lose every time he faces someone who can box a bit. I mean he made Joyce look like fckng Willie Pep.

Dubois still fairly inexperienced considering he didn’t have much of a senior amateur career. Joyce was his first big test. His confidence seems to be building and still to hit his physical prime. He will be up there when the others retire.

[si7dog7]

I strongly disagree with those who consider this a poor era of HW boxing. On the contrary, this is a strong era. It has been for about 5 years:

Usyk
Fury
AJ
Parker
Hrgovic
Zhang
Kabayel
Anderson
Dubois
Wilder
Joyce
Ajagba
Bakole
Sanchez
Ruiz Jr
Huni
Whyte

It is a relatively deep HW div. The top end has more than a handful of fighters who could compete and possibly win belts in any era.

Are you serious?

I think he is.

Oh dear. C’mon Ironbeard. Are you? Serious that is?