Tyson Fury … how good is he?

[polecateddy]

for me Tyson one of the best of his era. Crossover star, I don't agree with his comments on many matters, nor his PEDS, misuse of Hennessey etc, but as a fighter, cannot fault him. One of our best HWs ever for me.

Yeah he must be of course. The vulnerability seems real though. You get a sense even Bruno if he could pace himself might have found a way. I think Joshua will roll him over in a couple of rounds should he get the chance.

[ironbeard]

It’s just a joke
We do that sometimes
Virtual hug. It’s just a boxing forum.

OK, then debate the point.

Back when Ironbeard was watching boxing - I don't know how long you have been watching boxing for but there was dross then - it wasn't all Ali vs Frazier, Alfredo Evangelista got two shots at the title as did Lucien Rodriguez and Lorenzo Zanon (who both fought for the title once), Leroy Jones made Tyson Fury look like Mike Weaver and Tony Tubbs and Tim Witherspoon shared a ring at a combined weight of 40 stone and over 15 rounds - I mean - it wasn't that great then - he remembers it.

Now, these days - this is true - any heavyweight boxer of any talent can turn over from anywhere in the world - before 1990 - that wasn't the case - when Ali fought and Joe Louis fought - a lot of the planets boxers couldn't turn over - which is why Teo vs Ali was mooted at the time as the superfight that never happened - these days, Teofilo Stevenson would have probably turned over.

The only amateur - I might be wrong here - of modern times who was a super/heavyweight gold medalist was Camarelle of Italy - anyone who has any ambitions of heavyweight boxing talent can now turn over and the vast majority do - that wasn't always the case, that was my point.

I can't remember where I got the figures from, I will have a look but I looked up how many fighters there were in I think it was the 1950's compare to now, and there were a lot more then, I guess because overall, there was a greater proponderence of poverty.

I think from watching a lot of older fights, there was more strength in depth skills wise, of course not everybody.


Fury would have been competitive in any era, because of his size and movement, Usyk too, Joshua I suspect would have been found wanting against some of the big punchers, Dubois, come on man, he's basic, Joyce too, Zhang.

Don't forget, there were big lumps in the past too, who did ok, but at top level, got a right pasting. Max Baer, Carnera, Willard, all were at the top, but found wanting.

I don't think I have the time to devote to this, but an interesting debate.

I did like the point about Tua though, he would have been a nightmare for many of the current crop in my opinion, beyond the very best, and worth remembering, Lewis treated him with a great deal of respect. Tua was 2nd string, I am not sure I'd fancy Dubois chances much against Tua, to name but one - Joyce? Zhang - he's good but would he have beaten many contenders in the late 90's early 2000's?

Remember that a lot of the athletic talent, especially in the US, which is after all, a very large country with well fed and large people, goes into American football and basketball - which has depleted the athletic talent pool. There are a lot of Europeans now, but look how long the likes of Chisora has been near the top, are we really suggesting Chisora is a well schooled fighter?

One of my main issues now, is tha fighters don't fight very often, and therefore don't develop their talents. I'd have to really start digging in, which is quite time consuming, to really go into this fully.

Just to clarify: I am not denigrating other eras. I just STRONGLY believe that there are in the neighborhood of 10 boxers in the current HW Div who could compete in any era.

Of course, they would not ALL be belt holders, but they would be in the hunt, especially in the proliferation of belts eras. Of course, it is all entirely subjective, but I have plenty of ammo.

[Cas]

Anyone get the sense Tyson Fury would have been a lot better off under Peter Fury? I think the result could have been all the difference working the corner and he would have kept Tyson Fury in check. Sometimes you need somebody like Peter with a common sense approach and to keep you level headed. He wasn't a yes man and was strictly business something Tyson Fury doesn't have in his camp. Seems a lot more loose without him around and not as focussed.

[polecateddy]

Anyone get the sense Tyson Fury would have been a lot better off under Peter Fury? I think the result could have been all the difference working the corner and he would have kept Tyson Fury in check. Sometimes you need somebody like Peter with a common sense approach and to keep you level headed. He wasn't a yes man and was strictly business something Tyson Fury doesn't have in his camp. Seems a lot more loose without him around and not as focussed.

Yes I think that’s definitely true. He never got his physical shape right again.

[coneye]

Well the question is HOW GOOD IS HE , lets see , well to start with in my opinion , He's a lot better than i have been giving him credit for over the years , because i actually never thought he was much good , just well managed wether by somone else , his uncle or himself , he just made a lot of noise acted stupid , became the class clown and talked his way into the right fights at the right time , (vlad ) then ducked , dived , cheated (boars meat ) refused to fight decent opponents and took the easy route every time , He was also astute and made a lot of money recognizing the other champ was really another well managed fraud , and made a fortune having a trilology with him .

But i will say after his Usyk performance he actualy went up in my estimation , he's actually better than i have been thinking , he's got a big heart , and moves wel for a monster , is he good because of talent or size , who knows but guess what IT DOES'NT MATTER , Mike Tyson had speed and a punch , Ali had his attributes , big George Foreman at the time was just too big for most , so it does'nt matter why he's good , has long has he is good , .

How good , well he's certainly not up there with the best good , but he's far better than the fringe contender good , AJ may stop him then again he may get stopped himself , I still think he beats your parkers and Zangs , so he is Good but NOT GREAT .

[Ricky]

Well the question is HOW GOOD IS HE , lets see , well to start with in my opinion , He's a lot better than i have been giving him credit for over the years , because i actually never thought he was much good , just well managed wether by somone else , his uncle or himself , he just made a lot of noise acted stupid , became the class clown and talked his way into the right fights at the right time , (vlad ) then ducked , dived , cheated (boars meat ) refused to fight decent opponents and took the easy route every time , He was also astute and made a lot of money recognizing the other champ was really another well managed fraud , and made a fortune having a trilology with him .

But i will say after his Usyk performance he actualy went up in my estimation , he's actually better than i have been thinking , he's got a big heart , and moves wel for a monster , is he good because of talent or size , who knows but guess what IT DOES'NT MATTER , Mike Tyson had speed and a punch , Ali had his attributes , big George Foreman at the time was just too big for most , so it does'nt matter why he's good , has long has he is good , .

How good , well he's certainly not up there with the best good , but he's far better than the fringe contender good , AJ may stop him then again he may get stopped himself , I still think he beats your parkers and Zangs , so he is Good but NOT GREAT .

Fair post

[KiwiRider]

Fury has that X factor of being unpredictable, unconventional. Uysk was looking surprised a few times at how Fury was able to tag him seemingly out of range.
If you measured him against past greats, I think he would do well because he can get up and fight after a hard knock down, has an engine, his size and reach, and add that unpredictable X Factor makes him a bit of a nightmare.

[Grilling Machine]

When he started out I thought he'd end up in the all-time heavyweight 500, but he's climbed to top 50 on virtually everyone's list.

Against Usyk was the best I've seen him, with some really nice upperbody movement, and R9 aside, none of the defensive openings he's offered lesser opponents in lazier moments.

[SeanBrennan]

for me Tyson one of the best of his era. Crossover star, I don't agree with his comments on many matters, nor his PEDS, misuse of Hennessey etc, but as a fighter, cannot fault him. One of our best HWs ever for me.

Yeah he must be of course. The vulnerability seems real though. You get a sense even Bruno if he could pace himself might have found a way. I think Joshua will roll him over in a couple of rounds should he get the chance.

I really hope the AJ fight happens

[si7dog7]

for me Tyson one of the best of his era. Crossover star, I don't agree with his comments on many matters, nor his PEDS, misuse of Hennessey etc, but as a fighter, cannot fault him. One of our best HWs ever for me.

Yeah he must be of course. The vulnerability seems real though. You get a sense even Bruno if he could pace himself might have found a way. I think Joshua will roll him over in a couple of rounds should he get the chance.

I really hope the AJ fight happens

Should happen next Sean tbh.
Otherwise it’ll never happen.

[SeanBrennan]

Yeah he must be of course. The vulnerability seems real though. You get a sense even Bruno if he could pace himself might have found a way. I think Joshua will roll him over in a couple of rounds should he get the chance.

I really hope the AJ fight happens

Should happen next Sean tbh.
Otherwise it’ll never happen.

Would love that Si.