Brits, how come a seasoned top fighter like AJ fought so amateurish against DD?

[ewenhay]

He's just not a natural boxer.

It's always been boxing by numbers with Joshua, McCracken had a few simple moves nailed down which were practiced constantly so he wouldn't forget.

In his head he's on the road to becoming a masterful boxer but it's not happening.

He's forgotten the simple stuff that gave him a foundation. Now he's all over the place style wise and he's not talented enough to pull off the things he wants to do in his head.

[coneye]

He's just not a natural boxer.

It's always been boxing by numbers with Joshua, McCracken had a few simple moves nailed down which were practiced constantly so he wouldn't forget.

In his head he's on the road to becoming a masterful boxer but it's not happening.

He's forgotten the simple stuff that gave him a foundation. Now he's all over the place style wise and he's not talented enough to pull off the things he wants to do in his head.

Correct , Just like i keep saying perfect practice makes perfect , under his original ameteur trainer and obviously Mckracken , he just perfected the basics to a large extent , then mixed with his size, strenght, conditioning , he made the grade ,. its all he needs to get back , basic punches , good footwork , hands up , re learn his distancing , and don't emply trainers , who's best advice in a fooking WORLD TITLE FIGHT is , ROLL THE DICE , and throw a punch blind mary can see coming.

Yep what AJ needs now is a Trainer who is , going to lay down some ground rules , starting with ,

I'm the BOSS ,

You listen to me only .

You do has your told ,

yOU GET BACK TO BASICS ,, Then when he's done all that , have a good look and be prepared to say if neccesary .

AJ , your stuffed , your finished , go enjoy your money son , cos these guys are feeding your ego to make money , TIME TO HANG EM UP ,,, Go enjoy your money , after all this is a distinct possibility with him , maybee he just has'nt got what it takes anymore .

But if he does'nt it should be obvious to whoever is traing him and shame on them if they hav'nt told him straight

[apollo creed]

Let's call a spade-a spade! Joshua most probably loves to be butt kissed by his leechers. A strong case of prima-donna behaviour. DD is a fcking hungry, seek and destroy animal. In rematch I think DD would finish the job much quicker.

[JC]

Said it a dozen times its , muscle memory practiced ,and learnt in the gym , comes from being trained by boxercise celebrity trainers , , who do not pick up , correct , and punish, bad habits being formed , should of stayed with the guy who started him off in the ameteurs , or Rob mCKARACKEN ,, its obvious he goes in the gym does has he wants , how he wants , makes terrible mistakes , develops terrible habits and then pays the price , Christ AJ wants to be world champ again its not rocket science , he just needs to get back in there for 8-10 months and be made to PRACTICE PRACTICE , and PRACTICE basics , starting from the feet , followed by a jab , and the basic punches , keeping the hands up , .

No point having a trainer , who can go on u tube or tv , with a peice of chalk , a board , and explain the obvious whilst he's brushing his hair away , and smiling at the camera , if said trainer cannot even tell you , that you dont wing an upercut from half a mile away while your dropping your other hand , trouble is the coaches who are capable and can spot what needs to be spotted , are either not high profile enough or want too much money .

Given that they pretty much knew Dubois would want to walk AJ down behind the jab, what do you reckon they should have been working on? Should they have be trying to tie Dubois up (Wlad style) in that first round?

[apollo creed]

High guard, keep up his hands all the time, jab, jab, one-two and grab is the right style for a big robot like AJ.

[JamesPhilips]

High guard, keep up his hands all the time, jab, jab, one-two and grab is the right style for a big robot like AJ.

Yep for sure. He couldn’t keep his hands up from early on. From what I could hear, Ben never admonished him about it either but I could be wrong.

Ben probably a yes man who’s too scared of criticising Joshua in case he loses the gig

[handsofstone]

I can only surmise that Joshua got spooked after Dubois landed a few clean jabs in the early exchanges, Dubois buzzed AJ with a right hand about 30 seconds in as well, simply Joshua lost his shape and plan, any mistakes after the first knockdown can easily be put down to him being seriously buzzed still

[TheLeprechaun]

Joshua is crap. He always has been. I've said it all along but he's a poor mans Bruno. Bruno would jab him up and have him out of there in 3 rounds. I'd actually give Bruno KO1 a good shout.

[TheLeprechaun]

Its strange how an experienced top level fighter like AJ is still keeping his hands low, have an upright-stiff boxing posture and have poor fighting instincts? In all of his years of training and fighting he supposed to develope some boxing skills, have a good muscle memory and learn the boxing fundamentals ? I mean its strange to fight in such a reckless way.

Said it a dozen times its , muscle memory practiced ,and learnt in the gym , comes from being trained by boxercise celebrity trainers , , who do not pick up , correct , and punish, bad habits being formed , should of stayed with the guy who started him off in the ameteurs , or Rob mCKARACKEN ,, its obvious he goes in the gym does has he wants , how he wants , makes terrible mistakes , develops terrible habits and then pays the price , Christ AJ wants to be world champ again its not rocket science , he just needs to get back in there for 8-10 months and be made to PRACTICE PRACTICE , and PRACTICE basics , starting from the feet , followed by a jab , and the basic punches , keeping the hands up , .

No point having a trainer , who can go on u tube or tv , with a peice of chalk , a board , and explain the obvious whilst he's brushing his hair away , and smiling at the camera , if said trainer cannot even tell you , that you dont wing an upercut from half a mile away while your dropping your other hand , trouble is the coaches who are capable and can spot what needs to be spotted , are either not high profile enough or want too much money .

It really is quite basic , definetly not rocket science unlike some coaches would have them believe ,, he needs to go back with Rob , if thats possible , i think Mcguigan is a good shout , been impressed recently by that young fella , and i've always liked the Ingles there resume speaks for itself

Correct. I don't want a trainer who is more concerned with his barnet than boxing. He's gotten shown up majorly especially with Shane McGuigan hearing his commentary in real time and telling viewers that it was poor advice, only for AJ to get starched a minute later while following the advice.

[coneye]

Said it a dozen times its , muscle memory practiced ,and learnt in the gym , comes from being trained by boxercise celebrity trainers , , who do not pick up , correct , and punish, bad habits being formed , should of stayed with the guy who started him off in the ameteurs , or Rob mCKARACKEN ,, its obvious he goes in the gym does has he wants , how he wants , makes terrible mistakes , develops terrible habits and then pays the price , Christ AJ wants to be world champ again its not rocket science , he just needs to get back in there for 8-10 months and be made to PRACTICE PRACTICE , and PRACTICE basics , starting from the feet , followed by a jab , and the basic punches , keeping the hands up , .

No point having a trainer , who can go on u tube or tv , with a peice of chalk , a board , and explain the obvious whilst he's brushing his hair away , and smiling at the camera , if said trainer cannot even tell you , that you dont wing an upercut from half a mile away while your dropping your other hand , trouble is the coaches who are capable and can spot what needs to be spotted , are either not high profile enough or want too much money .

Given that they pretty much knew Dubois would want to walk AJ down behind the jab, what do you reckon they should have been working on? Should they have be trying to tie Dubois up (Wlad style) in that first round?

Jeezuz where do you start , so so many things to work on there ,

start with , throwing his jab from his chest , , sticking chin up instead of into his shoulder when he throws it

Constantly Leaving his arm out streched to get countered.

Quite often leaning not stepping back

quite often stepping in with front foot , but swinging right foot behind it , negating his own right hand too an extent

Hands continually too low .

footwork all over the place , half off balance before he even gets hit .

Continually walking to his left becoming a right hand waiting to happen ,

Did i say dropping his hands ,

always dangerous leaning back on someone swinging

BASIC BASIC BASIC mistakes , can't really believe someoine supposudly world champ level is making them and whats worse , a supposudly top trainer allowing it to happen in the gym , and believe me theres nothing happenning there that would'nt be happenning in the gym

Lokk at his footwork especielly later on , bringing feet together crossing them , christ one of them knock downs he actuall threw his right foot so far behind his left he threw himself of balance

PLUS too be honest , i think he's now just punch shy and a little chinny , he's lost any durability he had , he is scared of getting hit , and it shows , under pressure , he just wants to get away , a lot of the time simply mobvin in and closing the range would of worked for him he chose to try and escape , moving back leaning instead of using feet ,

Best advice he could get is GIVE IT AWAY , go spend some of your money , live a good life

This version of AJ gets absolutly hammered by ANY version of Fury , so much so , i don't even want to see such a lobsided fight , that ship has sailed .

[tonyevs]

This version of AJ gets absolutly hammered by ANY version of Fury

You missed the Ngannou fight then?

There are some here who dislike AJ for different reasons who are giving it "I told you so", there's others offering what I can only imagine is tongue-in-cheek 'basic' advise about technique.

The closest to the truth is the unfortunate mix of ego/arrogance and an early punch to the head off a 16+stone unit.

AJ has one of the best fight records of any top heavyweight today - yes I know that's like bragging to be the tallest midget in the circus - however it shows he knows the basics well enough.

[coneye]

This version of AJ gets absolutly hammered by ANY version of Fury

You missed the Ngannou fight then?

There are some here who dislike AJ for different reasons who are giving it "I told you so", there's others offering what I can only imagine is tongue-in-cheek 'basic' advise about technique.

The closest to the truth is the unfortunate mix of ego/arrogance and an early punch to the head off a 16+stone unit.

AJ has one of the best fight records of any top heavyweight today - yes I know that's like bragging to be the tallest midget in the circus - however it shows he knows the basics well enough.

No I did'nt miss the Ngannou fight , the one where he clobbered a NOVICE .

Personaly , i've always been a bit of an AJ fan , like the way he wants a rematch if beat , shows character

Disagree about basics , i would say he USED to know the basics well enough , however somewhere along the line he has forgot them and developed BAD HABITS that contracdict all the basics you would show a beginner , he also does have a good fight record , which shows you how much he has regressed especielly the other nights performance . Like i said in an earlier post , you CAN teach a old dog new tricks , but in this case , the tricks are in the form of bad habits , if not taught definetly practiced in the gym .

Jeezus look at one of them knockdowns , i don't think he was actually hit hard , he just swung his backfoot so far behind his lead foot , he virtually threw himself off balance onto the canvas , in fact looked like his ankle twitsed a bit ,

Will agree the punch to the head early doors from a 16 stone puncher may well off affected him , but that just leads to what i'm saying , it was basic novice mistakes that allowed the punch , and his resilience to being hit has dropped , time to pack it in

I also do like your tallest midgit anology ,, May i use that sometime

[tonyevs]

I think we disagreeing about the same thing. He does know the basics, because they have taken him this far for so long - and they such they are the basics he will never ever forget. But ego and arrogance has allowed him to develop bad habits as you say - or he thinks he is so good he doesnt need them as I opine ... i think they are both the same.

Where we disagree is that Fury clobbered the novice Ngannou ... Fury was the only one put down in that fight, and the only one literally running across the ring to grab and hold Ngannou to keep him off.

[JamesPhilips]

Joshua is crap. He always has been. I've said it all along but he's a poor mans Bruno. Bruno would jab him up and have him out of there in 3 rounds. I'd actually give Bruno KO1 a good shout.

The Bruno retrospective crew are here! Acting like Frank was the second coming of Sonny Liston….. Bruno was awful…

[JamesPhilips]

I think we disagreeing about the same thing. He does know the basics, because they have taken him this far for so long - and they such they are the basics he will never ever forget. But ego and arrogance has allowed him to develop bad habits as you say - or he thinks he is so good he doesnt need them as I opine ... i think they are both the same.

Where we disagree is that Fury clobbered the novice Ngannou ... Fury was the only one put down in that fight, and the only one literally running across the ring to grab and hold Ngannou to keep him off.

I think there’s a mix up here. One referring to AJ - Ngannou, not Fury- Ngannou and vice versa. Fury looked awful agaisnt Francis though he didn’t train. Joshua looked devastating, albeit against a novice boxer.

[coneye]

I think we disagreeing about the same thing. He does know the basics, because they have taken him this far for so long - and they such they are the basics he will never ever forget. But ego and arrogance has allowed him to develop bad habits as you say - or he thinks he is so good he doesnt need them as I opine ... i think they are both the same.

Where we disagree is that Fury clobbered the novice Ngannou ... Fury was the only one put down in that fight, and the only one literally running across the ring to grab and hold Ngannou to keep him off.

I never said Fury looked good against Ngannou , in fact he looked shite , but nganou was a novice , and AJ knocked out a novice , just think Fury would ALWAYS prepare for a fight against AJ ,, and on AJ's last showing any version of Fury who trains , will easilly beat the version of AJ we seen last week

Regards the rest though , I think we can agree that , even though AJ knew and was taught the basics which coupled with his size , power , strenght , and whatever else you want too say he had he became a world champ , but whatever the reason , ego , bad trainers , whatever , he certainly has'nt got them right at the moment

[tonyevs]

Arghh .. OK. So we have now moved from ..

This version of AJ gets absolutly hammered by ANY version of Fury

To this ..

any version of Fury who trains , will easilly beat the version of AJ we seen last week

As some here give Fury an excuse for the Ngannou fight; he didn`t train etc etc (even though he swore he did train, and he didn`t look any fatter than usual against Ngannou).

And yet don`t consider the same excuse for AJ against Dubois.

The big difference between the two is that Fury was able to scrape past Ngannou because Ngannou was a 40 yr old guy with no boxing experience having his debut boxing contest - AJ got hammered because he was facing a world class boxing opponent.

[Twinkle Toes]

I can only surmise that Joshua got spooked after Dubois landed a few clean jabs in the early exchanges, Dubois buzzed AJ with a right hand about 30 seconds in as well, simply Joshua lost his shape and plan, any mistakes after the first knockdown can easily be put down to him being seriously buzzed still

That's right, he was buzzed at 30 seconds in and he still didn't tighten up. That first knockdown was right on the button, he did well to get up to be fair. The fight ending punch wasn't a massive shot, but he was probably concussed from the previous rounds. We kinda saw the same thing in the first Ruiz fight.

I would say his ego is an issue though, he had his hands down and chin in the air. I don't think he showed Dubois any respect at all.

[coneye]

Arghh .. OK. So we have now moved from ..

This version of AJ gets absolutly hammered by ANY version of Fury

To this ..

any version of Fury who trains , will easilly beat the version of AJ we seen last week

As some here give Fury an excuse for the Ngannou fight; he didn`t train etc etc (even though he swore he did train, and he didn`t look any fatter than usual against Ngannou).

And yet don`t consider the same excuse for AJ against Dubois.

The big difference between the two is that Fury was able to scrape past Ngannou because Ngannou was a 40 yr old guy with no boxing experience having his debut boxing contest - AJ got hammered because he was facing a world class boxing opponent.

Ok based on what your saying about another fight Fury v Ngannou i retract what i'm saying about Boxercise Ben and AJ , , it seems i'm wrong , AJ has'nt been practicing mistakes and bad habits , in fact , leaving his left hand out after a jab , sticking his chin in the air , when he jabbed , leaning back , crossing his feet , swinging his right leg , behind his front leg , continually moving to his left into a right hand , , did not in fact happen , , ALL THE BASIC THINGS HE SHOULD OF GOT RIGHT , HE IN FACT DID , HE FOUGHT A BRILLIANT FIGHT , there we go , AJ is back to superstar status

[cormack]

Joshua is crap. He always has been. I've said it all along but he's a poor mans Bruno. Bruno would jab him up and have him out of there in 3 rounds. I'd actually give Bruno KO1 a good shout.

The Bruno retrospective crew are here! Acting like Frank was the second coming of Sonny Liston….. Bruno was awful…

Bruno was an average boxer who got stopped whenver he stepped up in levels .
the great british underdog also ran but we wuz robbed

[JamesPhilips]

Joshua is crap. He always has been. I've said it all along but he's a poor mans Bruno. Bruno would jab him up and have him out of there in 3 rounds. I'd actually give Bruno KO1 a good shout.

The Bruno retrospective crew are here! Acting like Frank was the second coming of Sonny Liston….. Bruno was awful…

Bruno was an average boxer who got stopped whenver he stepped up in levels .
the great british underdog also ran but we wuz robbed

Right. A man known for his ‘heroic’ losses - didn’t win a round against Tyson in 2 fights, landed one significant punch, had a couple of good rounds against an off key Lennox who battered him motionless in 7, absolutely flattened by Bonecrusher Smith, won a few rounds against a fat out of shape Witherspoon who outlasted and battered him whilst leading on the cards….

Yet half this forum act like he would’ve knocked out every heavyweight of the last 20 years. Astonishing.

Here is a video of Bruno’s best knockouts. And look how bad he is….. clumsy, holding, hitting the back of the head. Slow. Crude. Just a big lump. Just awful.

[tonyevs]

Arghh .. OK. So we have now moved from ..

This version of AJ gets absolutly hammered by ANY version of Fury

To this ..

any version of Fury who trains , will easilly beat the version of AJ we seen last week

As some here give Fury an excuse for the Ngannou fight; he didn`t train etc etc (even though he swore he did train, and he didn`t look any fatter than usual against Ngannou).

And yet don`t consider the same excuse for AJ against Dubois.

The big difference between the two is that Fury was able to scrape past Ngannou because Ngannou was a 40 yr old guy with no boxing experience having his debut boxing contest - AJ got hammered because he was facing a world class boxing opponent.

Ok based on what your saying about another fight Fury v Ngannou i retract what i'm saying about Boxercise Ben and AJ , , it seems i'm wrong , AJ has'nt been practicing mistakes and bad habits , in fact , leaving his left hand out after a jab , sticking his chin in the air , when he jabbed , leaning back , crossing his feet , swinging his right leg , behind his front leg , continually moving to his left into a right hand , , did not in fact happen , , ALL THE BASIC THINGS HE SHOULD OF GOT RIGHT , HE IN FACT DID , HE FOUGHT A BRILLIANT FIGHT , there we go , AJ is back to superstar status

No, It just seems your throwing your toys out of the pram..
But please help me by explaining what exactly I said that has you convinced that AJ wasn't shite and didn't get hammered by Dubois

[coneye]

I'm Fickle , I changed my mind again ,, He was actually shite and he did get hammered by DD , not only got hammered but made DD look a superstar at the same time ,

And unfortunatly i still say AT THIS PRESENT TIME unless HE CAN GET A GRIP AND SORT STUFF OUT fURY WILL BELT HIM , AND STOP HIM , this is something i actually hate to admit because personaly i always thought AJ would off had it all over Fury ,

I've always been a far bigger fan of AJ than Fury , both in and outside the ring , , think we can really both agree his performance there was well below subpar , the reasons though are WHY , you seem to think its ego and not listrening , i'm not so sure , i'm thinking its from developing bad habits in the gym and said bad habits not being noticed and put right , Along with trainers not recognizing he's limited , and working on strenghts pretty much what his ameteur trainer and Mckracken done , fact that when he was i suppose at the top , he was willing to change trainers admit he was still learning , suggests he will listen and leave ego at home ,

Lets have it right he's never been a smooth accomplished boxer , but he has always been a big strong powerful unit who eventually found a way to win , he even outboxed and used better footwork than Ruiz in the rematch , christ the other night he fell over his own feet .

You got me a bit flumoxed , i don't know if i'm in an argument or if i'm not

[tonyevs]

No argument mate

you seem to think its ego and not listrening , i'm not so sure , i'm thinking its from developing bad habits in the gym

I think we both agree in principle; probably just difference in the nuance.
Your correct, he undoubtedly developed bad habits in the gym - but I think it's because of his ego/arrogance.

I also agree with you that based on their last fights Fury would easily beat Joshua.
However - we probably seen THE best Fury against Usyk, which was probably exaggerated because of his huge size/weight advantages he had. And seen THE worse Joshua, which was probably exaggerated by his huge ego & overconfidence.

The flip side being Furys chin seems more fragile with every fight nowadays, and AJ can stick whack. And Joshua's confidence in his chin will be even worse now and Fury is always confident.

[coneye]

No argument mate

you seem to think its ego and not listrening , i'm not so sure , i'm thinking its from developing bad habits in the gym

I think we both agree in principle; probably just difference in the nuance.
Your correct, he undoubtedly developed bad habits in the gym - but I think it's because of his ego/arrogance.

I also agree with you that based on their last fights Fury would easily beat Joshua.
However - we probably seen THE best Fury against Usyk, which was probably exaggerated because of his huge size/weight advantages he had. And seen THE worse Joshua, which was probably exaggerated by his huge ego & overconfidence.

The flip side being Furys chin seems more fragile with every fight nowadays, and AJ can stick whack. And Joshua's confidence in his chin will be even worse now and Fury is always confident.

You hit the nail on head , CONFIDENCE , i think that will be the telling factor IF THEY FIGHT , Fury will come out looking for the KO , and AJ if going true to form will shy away from being hit , side note , did you notice AJ coming out southpaw , and getting dropped with a classic left hook .

What the hell was all that about , its world championship level , they really think there gonna catch DD out with a silly move like that