Mike McCallum versus Bernard Hopkins

[elmersalsa]

Anyone?

Mike McCallum was a better technician. A better fighter all around.

I rank Bernard Hopkins over McCallum in the top 100 pound per pound great boxers because of his accomplishments, not because of subliminal skills.

Skill wise, I favor McCallum.
If we're talking about accomplishments, then Hopkins gets the nod.

[Ambling Alp II]

Yet another case of "skills" not living up to "accomplishments."

[Expug]

If McCallum had more skills but Hopkins accomplished more, wouldn’t that mean that McCallum under achieved.
I don’t know man. Sometimes it seems like things around here are over thought. Or, maybe under thought.

[elmersalsa]

If McCallum had more skills but Hopkins accomplished more, wouldn’t that mean that McCallum under achieved.
I don’t know man. Sometimes it seems like things around here are over thought. Or, maybe under thought.

Mike McCallum was much more talented than Bernard Hopkins. That Hopkins had more achievements than McCallum does not mean that McCallum underachieved. He won 3 world titles in 3 weight classes. Hopkins made more title defenses. Had much more longevity.

But, put both fighting at their primes on the same ring and the Bodysnatcher becomes victorious. He was in a different class.

[gilgamesh]

If McCallum had more skills but Hopkins accomplished more, wouldn’t that mean that McCallum under achieved.
I don’t know man. Sometimes it seems like things around here are over thought. Or, maybe under thought.

Mike McCallum was much more talented than Bernard Hopkins. That Hopkins had more achievements than McCallum does not mean that McCallum underachieved. He won 3 world titles in 3 weight classes. Hopkins made more title defenses. Had much more longevity.

But, put both fighting at their primes on the same ring and the Bodysnatcher becomes victorious. He was in a different class.

If you get the same opportunities as someone, and you fail while they succeed. The one that succeeded is better than the one that failed more often than not.

That is certainly the case here.

McCallum was a damn good fighter, but not only do I think he doesn't beat Hopkins. I don't think he would've won all the fights Hopkins won. In fact I know he wouldn't have because he lost to lesser men than Hopkins did. I can't picture Hopkins at any point during his Championship years losing to Fabrice Tiozzo or Kalambay.

[elmersalsa]

If McCallum had more skills but Hopkins accomplished more, wouldn’t that mean that McCallum under achieved.
I don’t know man. Sometimes it seems like things around here are over thought. Or, maybe under thought.

Mike McCallum was much more talented than Bernard Hopkins. That Hopkins had more achievements than McCallum does not mean that McCallum underachieved. He won 3 world titles in 3 weight classes. Hopkins made more title defenses. Had much more longevity.

But, put both fighting at their primes on the same ring and the Bodysnatcher becomes victorious. He was in a different class.

If you get the same opportunities as someone, and you fail while they succeed. The one that succeeded is better than the one that failed more often than not.

That is certainly the case here.

McCallum was a damn good fighter, but not only do I think he doesn't beat Hopkins. I don't think he would've won all the fights Hopkins won. In fact I know he wouldn't have because he lost to lesser men than Hopkins did. I can't picture Hopkins at any point during his Championship years losing to Fabrice Tiozzo or Kalambay.

Bernard Hopkins was great, but he was nothing to be awed about. Roy Jones Jr gave him a boxing lesson in his prime. His title defenses were against stiffs. The only two guys that were notorious in his 22 title defenses were overrated superstars like Felix "Tito" Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya. Anybody else in that title reign wasn't that good. They were probably B class fighters at best.

Mike McCallum had skills that I can guarantee that he could beat at least 3 of the Four Kings if given the opportunity. He probably would have beaten all 4. We never knew because the guy was never given the chance and opportunity. He was one of the top 5 most complete boxers that I have ever seen in my lifetime. He was much more complete than Sugar Ray Leonard. That's why I believe if Leonard would have given him a shot, I would not be surprised in a McCallum's win. He was that good.

McCallum never got the chance to prove his skills against the Four Kings. It wasn't his fault nor nobody else's. He probably came into the party late. Plus, he was Jamaican. America is no going to promote a Jamaican boxer, no matter how good he is. He is in the same situation as the great Eusebio Pedroza who the American media hated so much because Pedroza was beating up their American young boxing prospects.

Pedroza, the most complete boxer ever in my lifetime, (yes, he was , in my lifetime) never had the chance to prove his skills against the elite featherweights like Salvador Sanchez, Danny "Little Red" Lopez, Wilfredo Gomez and Azumah Nelson. Were they scared of him? In my heart, I would say yes. But, the point is that some fighters never got the opportunity for big paydays, and they were very good.

[gilgamesh]

It is a shame that they never got the biggest possible fights, but it's weird how you use that as the reason to make them a better fighter than any of us ever saw them be against lesser names.

[elmersalsa]

It is a shame that they never got the biggest possible fights, but it's weird how you use that as the reason to make them a better fighter than any of us ever saw them be against lesser names.

I am not saying that they were the better fighters. I am saying that guys like Mike McCallum and Eusebio Pedroza, were the better skilled. Too bad that one was Jamaican and the other Panamanian.

Pedroza and McCallum were the two of the top 5 most complete boxers that I have ever seen in my lifetime. Pedroza to me, is #1. He in my view, my view, was the most complete boxer in my lifetime. Then, followed by Roberto Duran, Salvador Sanchez, McCallum and lastly Sugar Ray Leonard.

[Expug]

It is a shame that they never got the biggest possible fights, but it's weird how you use that as the reason to make them a better fighter than any of us ever saw them be against lesser names.

I am not saying that they were the better fighters. I am saying that guys like Mike McCallum and Eusebio Pedroza, were the better skilled. Too bad that one was Jamaican and the other Panamanian.

Pedroza and McCallum were the two of the top 5 most complete boxers that I have ever seen in my lifetime. Pedroza to me, is #1. He in my view, my view, was the most complete boxer in my lifetime. Then, followed by Roberto Duran, Salvador Sanchez, McCallum and lastly Sugar Ray Leonard.

I’d be interested to know what Marvin Hagler was Missing in the complete boxer category that kept him off your list.
Also , Pedroza was susceptible to a left hook and right hand combo. That’s why Barry Mcguigan along with better footwork, beat him.
Hagler could box, slug, had outstanding power, a phenomenal chin, stamina, killer instinct, he had it all.

[elmersalsa]

It is a shame that they never got the biggest possible fights, but it's weird how you use that as the reason to make them a better fighter than any of us ever saw them be against lesser names.

I am not saying that they were the better fighters. I am saying that guys like Mike McCallum and Eusebio Pedroza, were the better skilled. Too bad that one was Jamaican and the other Panamanian.

Pedroza and McCallum were the two of the top 5 most complete boxers that I have ever seen in my lifetime. Pedroza to me, is #1. He in my view, my view, was the most complete boxer in my lifetime. Then, followed by Roberto Duran, Salvador Sanchez, McCallum and lastly Sugar Ray Leonard.

I’d be interested to know what Marvin Hagler was Missing in the complete boxer category that kept him off your list.
Also , Pedroza was susceptible to a left hook and right hand combo. That’s why Barry Mcguigan along with better footwork, beat him.
Hagler could box, slug, had outstanding power, a phenomenal chin, stamina, killer instinct, he had it all.

There's nothing wrong with Marvelous. He was indeed a complete fighter. I could put him in the position #6 off my list. He was that great of a fighter. He had it all!

Eusebio Pedroza lost to Barry McGuigan in London, England. That's the only place he beats anybody. Outside of Great Britain he gets whupped by Eusebio Pedroza 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.

Plus, Pedroza's best days were behind him. He was 7 years as champion with 20 title defenses. It was his time to be dethroned. It was the right time, at the right place and with the right opponent. But in McGuigan's best days, he doesn't beat a prime Pedroza by any means. Pedroza was too good.

[Expug]

He came up with a great game plan to beat Pedroza. He kicked his ass no matter where that fight was fought that day.
You do know that Mcguigan was Irish and not English right ?

[elmersalsa]

He came up with a great game plan to beat Pedroza. He kicked his ass no matter where that fight was fought that day.
You do know that Mcguigan was Irish and not English right ?

Yes. I know that Barry McGuigan is Irish. He beat Eusebio Pedroza fair and square. But, that wasn't a prime Pedroza.

A prime Pedroza beats McGuigan every day of the week and twice on Sunday. McGuigan wasn't in Pedroza's level. He Never was.

[Expug]

He came up with a great game plan to beat Pedroza. He kicked his ass no matter where that fight was fought that day.
You do know that Mcguigan was Irish and not English right ?

Yes. I know that Barry McGuigan is Irish. He beat Eusebio Pedroza fair and square. But, that wasn't a prime Pedroza.

A prime Pedroza beats McGuigan every day of the week and twice on Sunday. McGuigan wasn't in Pedroza's level. He Never was.

Nope, Pedroza with that straight up and down stance he had would have trouble with Mcguigan style anytime they fought.
Barry would come forward low working off the jab, hooking to the body with left hooks, going to the head with right hands, moving his head and moving laterally to avoid the counter.
Problematic for Pedroza anytime with the style he fought.

[elmersalsa]

He came up with a great game plan to beat Pedroza. He kicked his ass no matter where that fight was fought that day.
You do know that Mcguigan was Irish and not English right ?

Yes. I know that Barry McGuigan is Irish. He beat Eusebio Pedroza fair and square. But, that wasn't a prime Pedroza.

A prime Pedroza beats McGuigan every day of the week and twice on Sunday. McGuigan wasn't in Pedroza's level. He Never was.

Nope, Pedroza with that straight up and down stance he had would have trouble with Mcguigan style anytime they fought.
Barry would come forward low working off the jab, hooking to the body with left hooks, going to the head with right hands, moving his head and moving laterally to avoid the counter.
Problematic for Pedroza anytime with the style he fought.

Totally disagree. Barry McGuigan wasn't in Eusebio Pedroza's level to begin with. The ONLY way he could beat a top ranked opponent was if the fight was in Great Britain. That's it. That night with Pedroza not even Willie Pep would have survived.

Once McGuigan left to America to fight Stevie Cruz, he got embarrassed. McGuigan was a flash in a pan fighter. You can't compare him with the greats like Pedroza.

Pedroza in his prime, whups McGuigan every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Different class!

[Expug]

Yes. I know that Barry McGuigan is Irish. He beat Eusebio Pedroza fair and square. But, that wasn't a prime Pedroza.

A prime Pedroza beats McGuigan every day of the week and twice on Sunday. McGuigan wasn't in Pedroza's level. He Never was.

Nope, Pedroza with that straight up and down stance he had would have trouble with Mcguigan style anytime they fought.
Barry would come forward low working off the jab, hooking to the body with left hooks, going to the head with right hands, moving his head and moving laterally to avoid the counter.
Problematic for Pedroza anytime with the style he fought.

Totally disagree. Barry McGuigan wasn't in Eusebio Pedroza's level to begin with. The ONLY way he could beat a top ranked opponent was if the fight was in Great Britain. That's it. That night with Pedroza not even Willie Pep would have survived.

Once McGuigan left to America to fight Stevie Cruz, he got embarrassed. McGuigan was a flash in a pan fighter. You can't compare him with the greats like Pedroza.

Pedroza in his prime, whups McGuigan every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Different class!

Why can’t I compare him with Pedroza when he beat him? That’s illogical.
And I won’t bother going into reasons that contributed to Mcguigan losing to Cruz. Why? Because I don’t like making excuses for guys losing.
I know that when you climb into the ring it’s on you what happens.
Your old,? so what you got in there. Own it.
Your old lady broke up with you.? Own it.
Out of shape because you partied too much ?
Your hand is sore?
Bad weather? Hostile crowd? Locust swarm? So what ? Own it.
The point is, you have to take the good and bad.
Mcguigan didn’t get embarrassed. He fought his best and lost.
You only get embarrassed if you quit.

[elmersalsa]

Nope, Pedroza with that straight up and down stance he had would have trouble with Mcguigan style anytime they fought.
Barry would come forward low working off the jab, hooking to the body with left hooks, going to the head with right hands, moving his head and moving laterally to avoid the counter.
Problematic for Pedroza anytime with the style he fought.

Totally disagree. Barry McGuigan wasn't in Eusebio Pedroza's level to begin with. The ONLY way he could beat a top ranked opponent was if the fight was in Great Britain. That's it. That night with Pedroza not even Willie Pep would have survived.

Once McGuigan left to America to fight Stevie Cruz, he got embarrassed. McGuigan was a flash in a pan fighter. You can't compare him with the greats like Pedroza.

Pedroza in his prime, whups McGuigan every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Different class!

Why can’t I compare him with Pedroza when he beat him? That’s illogical.
And I won’t bother going into reasons that contributed to Mcguigan losing to Cruz. Why? Because I don’t like making excuses for guys losing.
I know that when you climb into the ring it’s on you what happens.
Your old,? so what you got in there. Own it.
Your old lady broke up with you.? Own it.
Out of shape because you partied too much ?
Your hand is sore?
Bad weather? Hostile crowd? Locust swarm? So what ? Own it.
The point is, you have to take the good and bad.
Mcguigan didn’t get embarrassed. He fought his best and lost.
You only get embarrassed if you quit.

Barry McGuigan got embarrassed by a guy that nobody gave him a shot. He was a flash in the pan fighter that could ONLY win in Great Britain. Outside of Britain, he got whupped and embarrassed.

I am saying that he got embarrassed because, first, he was the champion. Second, he was the favorite. And third, he was a super star that American boxing media was in love with because he beat the hated Eusebio Pedroza and his style of boxing and his true story in his country made him a cult hero in Ireland.

Pedroza lost. It was his time. Just like Sugar Ray Robinson had his time to lose against Gene Fullmer. Muhammad Ali loss to Leon Spinks. And so on. It was their time to go.

Pedroza had 20 title defenses in 7 years as featherweight king. Ten of those defenses were at the guys backyards. A world record. Nobody came close. He was 32 and ready to be taken and dethroned. It just happened that it was McGuigan in a hostile crowd in London, England. Pedroza was a TRUE WORLD CHAMPION. We can't take nothing away from his greatness. He was one of the top 10 all-time greatest featherweights, deservedly so. And one of the top 100 pound per pound great boxers ever.

McGuigan? Doesn't come close to a top 20 featherweight, let alone a top 100 all-time pound per pound great.

[Expug]

Pedroza lost because Mcguigan and his team came up with a great game plan to beat him.
Running down Mcguigans ability and performance does not enhance Pedrozas legacy. If he’s an all time great, at 32 years old he should be able to beat an overrated flash in the pan that can win outside London.
And he didn’t get embarrassed by Stevie Cruz anymore than Pedroza got embarrassed by Alfonso Zamora.
They got beat. It happens.

[elmersalsa]

Pedroza lost because Mcguigan and his team came up with a great game plan to beat him.
Running down Mcguigans ability and performance does not enhance Pedrozas legacy. If he’s an all time great, at 32 years old he should be able to beat an overrated flash in the pan that can win outside London.
And he didn’t get embarrassed by Stevie Cruz anymore than Pedroza got embarrassed by Alfonso Zamora.
They got beat. It happens.

Like I said, Eusebio Pedroza was ready to be taken. He could have lost to anyone, to any top featherweight of the times. It was his time to go.

Barry McGuigan inside of Great Britain was a lion with the people behind him. Outside of Britain, he was a total pussycat.

[Expug]

You think all the fans in Great Britain were behind the Irish kid?
Took a lot of guts to fight there in the 80s.