Roberto Duran vs Benny Leonard in a series?

[gilgamesh]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we've spun this broken record enough.

You can't accept nor handle the truth! That's what is happening.

You can't brother. You can't.

[elmersalsa]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we've spun this broken record enough.

You can't accept nor handle the truth! That's what is happening.

You can't brother. You can't.

The truth shall set you free. Ask Jesus Christ if you believe in him.

[keithmoonhangover]

His own manager forged it. It was all about greed and betrayal.

That's an interesting theory. Where did you first read/hear about it?

[elmersalsa]

His own manager forged it. It was all about greed and betrayal.

That's an interesting theory. Where did you first read/hear about it?

It's all over the Internet. We are in the age of information. As a matter of fact, for starters, see this clip when the night after the fight, ABC Sports showed the replay of the No Mas fiasco and had interviews with Sugar Ray Leonard and Roberto Duran in the studios.

One of the most interesting and clear evidence of betrayal was when the money, ($8 million dollars) was already in a Panama City bank. What was that?

[GordonChen]

Speaking of the no mas I wonder how would Duran career been like if he didn’t quit against Leonard

[gilgamesh]

Speaking of the no mas I wonder how would Duran career been like if he didn’t quit against Leonard

He's already often considered one of the very, very best of all time so it's hard to imagine his legacy being much greater than it is.

If he had lost a decision to Leonard in the rematch I figure it doesn't take him another 3 years before he starts getting big fight opportunities again. I also figure he wouldn't have fought on for another 21 years, I think he likely would've retired sometime in the late 1980's and stayed retired if not for the "No Mas" thing probably because he would've been able to make a lot more money in the intervening years as his reputation wouldn't have taken the big hit that it did.

[keithmoonhangover]

His own manager forged it. It was all about greed and betrayal.

That's an interesting theory. Where did you first read/hear about it?

It's all over the Internet. We are in the age of information. As a matter of fact, for starters, see this clip when the night after the fight, ABC Sports showed the replay of the No Mas fiasco and had interviews with Sugar Ray Leonard and Roberto Duran in the studios.

One of the most interesting and clear evidence of betrayal was when the money, ($8 million dollars) was already in a Panama City bank. What was that?

Do you have any evidence that Duran's signature was forged on the contract?

[elmersalsa]

First, Roberto Duran was in New York City. How could he sign?

Second, why his manager signed when he knew that his fighter was in a party mode?

Third, why Duran never knew that Mike Trainer, Sugar Ray Leonard'd manager, and Don King, Duran's promoter, flew to Panama City at a hush hush way for Carlos Eleta to sign?

Fourth, why Eleta didn't consult Duran before signing that he was going to get $8 million dollars? Why his greediness and betrayal came in the way? Ain't the role of a manager is to protect his fighter and get him the best fight at his fighter's request and best interest?


You don't have to answer. You're one of Leonard's biased fans.

A greedy heart can do some wicked things. For example, the OJ Simpson case. The prosecution had that case won. Why they didn't win. Because they were greedy and wicked. They should have let the evidences like it is. They altered the evidences and OJ got free. Simple as that.

[gilgamesh]

I can't speak for them, but I'm a much bigger fan of Duran than I am of Leonard personally, and I find your excuses to be bullsh*t, and bullsh*t even when repeated 1000 times remains bullsh*t just the same.

I know Duran always made excuses for his losses. I find that to be the least admirable trait of his, but many fighters have that same trait, and I understand psychologically where it comes from in a fighter to need an excuse for a loss so I don't really fault the fighter for it.

Duran is overall a much more exciting fighter to watch, and I generally rewatch Duran fights more often than Leonard fights because he brought more action for my taste....and all that being said. He lost to Leonard in the rematch because HE didn't prepare. Leonard came to fight that night, and Duran didn't. That's on him, and nobody else. As a Pro fighter you have 2 jobs. Stay in tip top shape, and Fight the Fights. He skipped the first part of his job, and it costs him. The End.

[elmersalsa]

I can't speak for them, but I'm a much bigger fan of Duran than I am of Leonard personally, and I find your excuses to be bullsh*t, and bullsh*t even when repeated 1000 times remains bullsh*t just the same.

I know Duran always made excuses for his losses. I find that to be the least admirable trait of his, but many fighters have that same trait, and I understand psychologically where it comes from in a fighter to need an excuse for a loss so I don't really fault the fighter for it.

Duran is overall a much more exciting fighter to watch, and I generally rewatch Duran fights more often than Leonard fights because he brought more action for my taste....and all that being said. He lost to Leonard in the rematch because HE didn't prepare. Leonard came to fight that night, and Duran didn't. That's on him, and nobody else. As a Pro fighter you have 2 jobs. Stay in tip top shape, and Fight the Fights. He skipped the first part of his job, and it costs him. The End.

The end my, ass!

You don't want to accept the truth. You can't handle the truth. And it's not bullshit. Have you read the book The Hands of Stone? Have you make a diligent inquisition about the matter, mister?

Esteban De Jesus beat Roberto Duran. You don't give him credit more than you give Sugar Ray Leonard for a DIRTY FIX. A wicked fix that he wasn't satisfied. He had to go to Panama City to see Duran and asked what really happened. It was a tainted win. A BEAUTIFUL STRATEGY. That's all it was.

Every man has the right to enjoy the fruits of his labors. Duran wasn't any different. He did everything right. The one to blame was his greedy and wicked manager Carlos Eleta. He was the real wicked person of the whole situation.

A manager's job is to look out for his fighter's best interest and to put him in a position to win. I guess you can't understand that. Well, the wicked doesn't know judgement. So, figures.

Mike Trainer did his job. Eleta didn't. Eleta and his greedy self took the money without consulting his fighter. He threw his fighter on a leach against the wolves. And that was the ONLY WAY Leonard had a way to win. To act this dirty. De Jesus didn't do that. I praise DeJesus win over Duran over any of the Duran losses in his prime, which was only one.

He sold his man for $8 million dollars. That's a big shame. It's on him. Not on Duran. Duran got the right to party. He did everything right. Eleta was the one that fuucked him over.

[keithmoonhangover]

First, Roberto Duran was in New York City. How could he sign?

Second, why his manager signed when he knew that his fighter was in a party mode?

Third, why Duran never knew that Mike Trainer, Sugar Ray Leonard'd manager, and Don King, Duran's promoter, flew to Panama City at a hush hush way for Carlos Eleta to sign?

Fourth, why Eleta didn't consult Duran before signing that he was going to get $8 million dollars? Why his greediness and betrayal came in the way? Ain't the role of a manager is to protect his fighter and get him the best fight at his fighter's request and best interest?


You don't have to answer. You're one of Leonard's biased fans.

A greedy heart can do some wicked things. For example, the OJ Simpson case. The prosecution had that case won. Why they didn't win. Because they were greedy and wicked. They should have let the evidences like it is. They altered the evidences and OJ got free. Simple as that.

Yeah, but I asked if you had any evidence. Do you?

[elmersalsa]

First, Roberto Duran was in New York City. How could he sign?

Second, why his manager signed when he knew that his fighter was in a party mode?

Third, why Duran never knew that Mike Trainer, Sugar Ray Leonard'd manager, and Don King, Duran's promoter, flew to Panama City at a hush hush way for Carlos Eleta to sign?

Fourth, why Eleta didn't consult Duran before signing that he was going to get $8 million dollars? Why his greediness and betrayal came in the way? Ain't the role of a manager is to protect his fighter and get him the best fight at his fighter's request and best interest?


You don't have to answer. You're one of Leonard's biased fans.

A greedy heart can do some wicked things. For example, the OJ Simpson case. The prosecution had that case won. Why they didn't win. Because they were greedy and wicked. They should have let the evidences like it is. They altered the evidences and OJ got free. Simple as that.

Yeah, but I asked if you had any evidence. Do you?

The evidence are all over the Internet. Had you make a diligent inquisition about what really happened in No Mas?

[gilgamesh]

I can't speak for them, but I'm a much bigger fan of Duran than I am of Leonard personally, and I find your excuses to be bullsh*t, and bullsh*t even when repeated 1000 times remains bullsh*t just the same.

I know Duran always made excuses for his losses. I find that to be the least admirable trait of his, but many fighters have that same trait, and I understand psychologically where it comes from in a fighter to need an excuse for a loss so I don't really fault the fighter for it.

Duran is overall a much more exciting fighter to watch, and I generally rewatch Duran fights more often than Leonard fights because he brought more action for my taste....and all that being said. He lost to Leonard in the rematch because HE didn't prepare. Leonard came to fight that night, and Duran didn't. That's on him, and nobody else. As a Pro fighter you have 2 jobs. Stay in tip top shape, and Fight the Fights. He skipped the first part of his job, and it costs him. The End.

The end my, ass!

You don't want to accept the truth. You can't handle the truth. And it's not bullshit. Have you read the book The Hands of Stone? Have you make a diligent inquisition about the matter, mister?

Esteban De Jesus beat Roberto Duran. You don't give him credit more than you give Sugar Ray Leonard for a DIRTY FIX. A wicked fix that he wasn't satisfied. He had to go to Panama City to see Duran and asked what really happened. It was a tainted win. A BEAUTIFUL STRATEGY. That's all it was.

Every man has the right to enjoy the fruits of his labors. Duran wasn't any different. He did everything right. The one to blame was his greedy and wicked manager Carlos Eleta. He was the real wicked person of the whole situation.

A manager's job is to look out for his fighter's best interest and to put him in a position to win. I guess you can't understand that. Well, the wicked doesn't know judgement. So, figures.

Mike Trainer did his job. Eleta didn't. Eleta and his greedy self took the money without consulting his fighter. He threw his fighter on a leach against the wolves. And that was the ONLY WAY Leonard had a way to win. To act this dirty. De Jesus didn't do that. I praise DeJesus win over Duran over any of the Duran losses in his prime, which was only one.

He sold his man for $8 million dollars. That's a big shame. It's on him. Not on Duran. Duran got the right to party. He did everything right. Eleta was the one that fuucked him over.

I've read the book "Hands of Stone" twice actually. I just know that Duran is making excuses because he can't handle that he lost.

You are correct though that Leonard had a beautiful strategy. He boxed and moved rather than brawled and he turned a loss into a win.

[gilgamesh]

And when have I ever said that De Jesus's win over Duran wasn't impressive?

[keithmoonhangover]

First, Roberto Duran was in New York City. How could he sign?

Second, why his manager signed when he knew that his fighter was in a party mode?

Third, why Duran never knew that Mike Trainer, Sugar Ray Leonard'd manager, and Don King, Duran's promoter, flew to Panama City at a hush hush way for Carlos Eleta to sign?

Fourth, why Eleta didn't consult Duran before signing that he was going to get $8 million dollars? Why his greediness and betrayal came in the way? Ain't the role of a manager is to protect his fighter and get him the best fight at his fighter's request and best interest?


You don't have to answer. You're one of Leonard's biased fans.

A greedy heart can do some wicked things. For example, the OJ Simpson case. The prosecution had that case won. Why they didn't win. Because they were greedy and wicked. They should have let the evidences like it is. They altered the evidences and OJ got free. Simple as that.

Yeah, but I asked if you had any evidence. Do you?

The evidence are all over the Internet. Had you make a diligent inquisition about what really happened in No Mas?

It's a simple question. Have you got any evidence?

[elmersalsa]

I can't speak for them, but I'm a much bigger fan of Duran than I am of Leonard personally, and I find your excuses to be bullsh*t, and bullsh*t even when repeated 1000 times remains bullsh*t just the same.

I know Duran always made excuses for his losses. I find that to be the least admirable trait of his, but many fighters have that same trait, and I understand psychologically where it comes from in a fighter to need an excuse for a loss so I don't really fault the fighter for it.

Duran is overall a much more exciting fighter to watch, and I generally rewatch Duran fights more often than Leonard fights because he brought more action for my taste....and all that being said. He lost to Leonard in the rematch because HE didn't prepare. Leonard came to fight that night, and Duran didn't. That's on him, and nobody else. As a Pro fighter you have 2 jobs. Stay in tip top shape, and Fight the Fights. He skipped the first part of his job, and it costs him. The End.

The end my, ass!

You don't want to accept the truth. You can't handle the truth. And it's not bullshit. Have you read the book The Hands of Stone? Have you make a diligent inquisition about the matter, mister?

Esteban De Jesus beat Roberto Duran. You don't give him credit more than you give Sugar Ray Leonard for a DIRTY FIX. A wicked fix that he wasn't satisfied. He had to go to Panama City to see Duran and asked what really happened. It was a tainted win. A BEAUTIFUL STRATEGY. That's all it was.

Every man has the right to enjoy the fruits of his labors. Duran wasn't any different. He did everything right. The one to blame was his greedy and wicked manager Carlos Eleta. He was the real wicked person of the whole situation.

A manager's job is to look out for his fighter's best interest and to put him in a position to win. I guess you can't understand that. Well, the wicked doesn't know judgement. So, figures.

Mike Trainer did his job. Eleta didn't. Eleta and his greedy self took the money without consulting his fighter. He threw his fighter on a leach against the wolves. And that was the ONLY WAY Leonard had a way to win. To act this dirty. De Jesus didn't do that. I praise DeJesus win over Duran over any of the Duran losses in his prime, which was only one.

He sold his man for $8 million dollars. That's a big shame. It's on him. Not on Duran. Duran got the right to party. He did everything right. Eleta was the one that fuucked him over.

I've read the book "Hands of Stone" twice actually. I just know that Duran is making excuses because he can't handle that he lost.

You are correct though that Leonard had a beautiful strategy. He boxed and moved rather than brawled and he turned a loss into a win.

And you forgot that he paid the crooked bastard $8 million dollars on top of that to look good.

Esteban De Jesus never paid $8 million dollars to beat nobody.

[GordonChen]

And when have I ever said that De Jesus's win over Duran wasn't impressive?

Yo Gilgamesh I got a request

[gilgamesh]

And when have I ever said that De Jesus's win over Duran wasn't impressive?

Yo Gilgamesh I got a request

What is it?

[GordonChen]

And when have I ever said that De Jesus's win over Duran wasn't impressive?

Yo Gilgamesh I got a request

What is it?

Is there a possible way you can get other members to comment on this post since I would like this post to be huge meaning I would want to see if we could at least get from 6 people commenting on this post to 8 or 9

[gilgamesh]

No I can't make people care or comment on things that don't interest them.

And that's a very strange request

If I had such powers of influence I think I'd find more important things to do with them.

[keithmoonhangover]

No I can't make people care or comment on things that don't interest them.

And that's a very strange request

If I had such powers of influence I think I'd find more important things to do with them.

Maybe you have a superpower and don't know it. Captain Influence or The Influencer?

[keithmoonhangover]

Yeah, but I asked if you had any evidence. Do you?

The evidence are all over the Internet. Had you make a diligent inquisition about what really happened in No Mas?

It's a simple question. Have you got any evidence?

I'll take that as a no. Shame, I thought you were onto something with the whole forged signature theory.

[elmersalsa]

The evidence are all over the Internet. Had you make a diligent inquisition about what really happened in No Mas?
[/quot
It's a simple question. Have you got any evidence?

I'll take that as a no. Shame, I thought you were onto something with the whole forged signature theory.

Look it up

[keithmoonhangover]

Look it up

I have, and there isn't any evidence. Non at all. Zero. I think it's all in your head. I'd love you to prove me wrong, but I don't think you can.

[gilgamesh]

Look it up

I have, and there isn't any evidence. Non at all. Zero. I think it's all in your head. I'd love you to prove me wrong, but I don't think you can.

He can't. I suppose what he thinks is "Proof" is that Duran said this in his book. He still hasn't grasped the concept that it was Duran's job to train and prepare for the fight, and nobody else's.

It's somehow someone else's fault that he wasn't prepared to do his job.

We've been over this ad nauseum. He's a broken record on this issue he doesn't get it, doesn't want to get it, isn't going to get it. So I think we've covered it.