Floyd Mayweather jr vs The Fab Three @ 147

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Hatton and Corrales are not Hall of Famers but they were prime World Champions. You said Floyd never fought anyone in their prime. Canelo was certainly a lot closer to his prime than Floyd there's no denying that. I notice you conveniently skipped over him though because you needed to.

They are both in the hof officially
Agreed they probably shouldnt be

Hatton and Corrales are in the Hall of Fame?

Yes

[gilgamesh]

Well goddamn then. In that case I haven't been giving Floyd enough credit. I've been saying he beat 7 Hall of Famers in his career. Silly me.

He beat 9.

[gilgamesh]

Except those "achievements" don't mean very much in comparison to beat 4 of the Top 50 fighters of all time, when they were still great, which is what counts. How many fighters have done this? Less than 10.
Mayweather has zero wins that compare to those 4.
Leonard had injured hands during his career as well.

What you don't get about the detached retina is that it forced Leonard out of the sport during his prime. Fighters don't come back as good as they once were after long layoffs like this. He was better than expected when he came back, but clearly not as good. And that almost always happens to fighters who came back after that kind of layoff.

Mayweather would have losses to non-great fighters in his prime if it was not for corrupt judges. Leonard did have that.
total wins? Seriously? Total wins means virtually nothing in boxing. You can always find a stiff to beat. Do we really need to go through names of guys who were not that good that had more wins than Mayweather?

The proof is that Leonard had the better career.

Other than Ali I don't know if anyone has 3 bigger wins than Leonard. And if the comparison stopped at simply their 3 biggest wins then Leonard would be well ahead.

It doesn't though.

For the record though. I would favor Leonard in a head to head mythical fight.

There were a handful of guys whose best wins were comparable to Leonard, besides Ali. Charles, Moore, Armstrong, Langford, Greb, Robinson. I.e. the best of all time.

your biggest wins is the most important thing. that is where you should start. Boxing is not like other sports. In the NFL, NBA or MLB, teams play roughly even schedules. They isn't the case boxing. In boxing statistics are less reliable.

Floyd Patterson had more title defenses and beat more Hall of Famers than Sonny Liston. Yet everyone knows Liston was better.
Jack Johnson beat more Hall of Famers than Leonard. Almost everyone would rate Leonard higher.

Some Hall of Fmaers are way better than someothers. Also matter when you fought the Hall of Famer.

Right now, Elmer salsa is always wanting guys Esteban DeJesus in the HOF. Why? Because right now, Leonard and Duran have beaten the same amount of Hall of Famers. If DeJesus ever gets in, Duran would have beaten one more Hall of Famer than DeJesus.
How stupid is that? DeJesus, Duran, and Leonard have not fought for decades. But a vote in the Hall of Famer would give Duran a numerical advantage.
And elmer is never going to admit that Leonard's Hall of Famers are way better than Durans'. And they are also way better than Mayweathers.

As for the number of title defenses, take the number and multiply it by zero. That is how important the sheer number is.
Quality trumps quantity. You can always find a stiff to defend the title against.

Weight the best wins and best performances against the losses and bad performances. Take into consideration how close to a fighter's prime was and how close his opponents were. Right off the bat you can tell Leonard was better.

I was wrong by the way about how many Hall of Famers Mayweather had beaten. It was 9, not 7. I didn't realize Corrales and Hatton had been inducted into the Hall of Fame.

My mistake on that one.

[Cojimar 1946]

Leonard outboxed Benitez by a wide margin. He was about as good defensively as it gets.

Duran beat wide range of levels of fighters. There are scores of wins against stiffs. Even when he was a seasoned pro, he fought a lot of tomato cans. There are also many wins over very good fighters.

Duran has the win over Leonard of course. But Buchanan, Palomino, and Cuevas are below average for Hall of Famers. His 4-4 in Hall of Famers is as almost as misleading as Mayweather's 7-4.

My problem with Mayweather is that if you take a really hard look at the stage of the fighter's career when he actually fought them, they were probably even worse than Buchanan, Palomino, and Cuevas.

Shane Mosley was the #1 Welterweight contender, and coming off of one of his biggest career wins.

Miguel Cotto was a Top 5 rated Contender who still had it in him to win the Middleweight Championship in an upset over Sergio Martinez

Saul "Canelo" Alvarez was making his 5th World Title defense, and would go on to be the face of Boxing for the next decade following Mayweather's retirement, and has since never been beaten as decisively as he was beaten by Mayweather.

Those 3 guys are Hall of Famers.

Diego Corrales was still in his absolute prime when he fought Mayweather. Ricky Hatton was still the reigning Jr. Welterweight Champion and undefeated when he fought Mayweather. Juan Manuel Marquez still had his biggest career win left in him when he fought Mayweather. Manny Pacquiao has gone 5-2-1 since fighting Mayweather, winning another World Championship and beating the at the time #1 ranked Welterweight a whole 4 years after losing to Mayweather.

You absolutely refuse to give this man credit.

Mosley was way past his best when he fought Mayweather. Margarito was one of his biggest wins? No.
38 years old and had had taken a lot of punishment. We are talking more 7 years past his prime.
Pacquio was 36 andhad also taken a lot of punishment. Several years past his best.
Marques was 36. He moved up ywo weight classes to fight Maywather at 147. Only had 2 fights at even 135.

Those are the biggest names. None of those wins mean much at all. It's sheer desperation to think they mare imprtant.

Corrales should not be in the HOF.
Hatton is even worse.

Ayub Kalue was a better fighter than these Corrales and Hatton. And better than the senior citizens were at the time that they fought Mayweather.

Leonard's opponents:

Hagler was 32.
Duran was 29
Hearns was 22
Benitez was 21

Compared to most guys, Mayweather's victims list is pretty good. Compared to Leonard, it's a joke.

And again, paper tiles and WBS title defenses don't mean anything.

If Corrales doesn't belong in the HOF why are you hyping up Benitez, the man lost his biggest fights and was losing to Hilton and Moore. He has some absolutely horrendous defeats.

[Ambling Alp II]

Benítez lost his biggest fights? well, he beat Roberto Duran. Ever heard of him?
At the age of 17, he beat Cervantes, one of the best jr. Welterweights ever.
He beat Carlos Palomino for the welterweight title.

Well yes, he lost to Leonard and Hearns. Performed well on both.
He broke his ankle in the Moore fight. He had serious health problems at the end of his career.

Have you ever actually seen Benitez fight? Watch these fights. Watch his knockout of Maurice Hope.

[Ambling Alp II]

How desperate are go going to go with Mayweather? Bringing up Hatton and now Gatti?
Not all Hall of famers are the same. sometimes there are gigantic differences.

The argument is now that the 5th best fighter that Mayweather beat is better than the 5th best that Leonard beat? WTF? how desperate can you get.

Just because a guy gets put in the HOF doesn't mean he is great.
Clearly they have putting in undeserving fighters quite bit in the last few years.

Imagine if Ayub Kalue was one of Mayweather's victims:
Going into the Leonard beat him, he was 36-0!
He had 4 title defenses!

[gilgamesh]

How desperate are go going to go with Mayweather? Bringing up Hatton and now Gatti?
Not all Hall of famers are the same. sometimes there are gigantic differences.

The argument is now that the 5th best fighter that Mayweather beat is better than the 5th best that Leonard beat? WTF? how desperate can you get.

Just because a guy gets put in the HOF doesn't mean he is great.
Clearly they have putting in undeserving fighters quite bit in the last few years.

Imagine if Ayub Kalue was one of Mayweather's victims:
Going into the Leonard beat him, he was 36-0!
He had 4 title defenses!

Brother I've given you EVERY REASON why Mayweather had the better career than Leonard, you simply refuse to acknowledge the facts.

Any fact I give you, you shoot down as insignificant. I could do the exact same thing with Leonard's achievements, but I respect Leonard's achievements just like I respect Mayweather's so I wouldn't do that.

Mayweather has over twice as many Championship wins. Twice as many Hall of Fame opponents that he beat. Not my opinion, a stone cold fact of life my friend.

You don't have to like it that Mayweather had a better career than Leonard, but I hope you understand IT IS REALITY.

I prefer watching Leonard too Alp. I think Leonard could beat Mayweather when they were both in their primes too Alp, but the fact of the matter is Leonard's career doesn't match Mayweather's in any way, shape or form.

He doesn't match him in Wins. He doesn't match him in Championship wins. He doesn't match him in Hall of Famers beat. He doesn't match him in Knockouts. He doesn't match him in Money made. He doesn't MATCH HIM.

I'll bet he does have Mayweather beat when it comes to how much of his prime years he pissed away doing Cocaine though. I'll bet that.

Unless you want to kid yourself that Leonard was living 100% on the straight and narrow all through 1983 and 1984/5.

And let me give you yet another statistic to close this argument out. You'll ignore it, but whatever it's worth saying for the others to read and understand. Mayweather lost less rounds in 50 fights than Leonard lost in 40.

Leonard was a bigger star. He was more of a media darling. He was given more of a push from the get go in his career. He may have even been the better fighter head to head.

But he absolutely. 100%. DID NOT. Have a better career than Floyd Mayweather Jr.

[Ambling Alp II]

The amount of champion wins, wins, title defenses don't mean squat in boxing. Its not like baseball, basketball, football etc. These guys are not fighting the same opponents and having the same amount of fights.
This is not a sport where you can just go by numbers. You are not comparing apples to apples when you say this guy had more title defenses than this guy and things like that.
You are also not considering the Castillo fight as well. Boxing is a corrupt sport. In the NFL, NBA, MLB, you don't play the entire game or match and then have the officials decide that the guy who was worse gets the win. Which is what happened with the Castillo fight. But of course, it doesn't count in Mayweather's stats. Just another "win".
Who knows, maybe they will put him in the HOF and Mayweather will look even better.
Leonard never had a win like that.

Leonard's top 4 wins are better than any of Mayweather's. That means something. It means a lot. Quality trumps quantity in boxing.

[gilgamesh]

The amount of champion wins, wins, title defenses don't mean squat in boxing. Its not like baseball, basketball, football etc. These guys are not fighting the same opponents and having the same amount of fights.
This is not a sport where you can just go by numbers. You are not comparing apples to apples when you say this guy had more title defenses than this guy and things like that.
You are also not considering the Castillo fight as well. Boxing is a corrupt sport. In the NFL, NBA, MLB, you don't play the entire game or match and then have the officials decide that the guy who was worse gets the win. Which is what happened with the Castillo fight. But of course, it doesn't count in Mayweather's stats. Just another "win".
Who knows, maybe they will put him in the HOF and Mayweather will look even better.
Leonard never had a win like that.

Leonard's top 4 wins are better than any of Mayweather's. That means something. It means a lot. Quality trumps quantity in boxing.

I considered the Castillo fight. Mayweather gets no Championship bonus, and very few points at all for his efforts in that one. Castillo on the other hand is scored with a win for that bout because...he won it. A close decision that could've gone either way, I go with the judges decision even if I disagree, but if it's highway robbery, I mark it down accordingly in my book.

So Castillo vs Mayweather 1 is most definitely not something that enhances Mayweather's legacy at all. Mayweather winning the rematch helped though certainly.

Leonard definitely has favoritism from officials in his fights. Quicker stoppages than other guys would've gotten. Stuff like that. The Stars always get that kinda treatment. That isn't new.

I know title defenses don't matter to you. You've said that repeatedly, but beating more Top 10 ranked contenders and Hall of Famers surely does right? Except...oh right they weren't good Contenders and Hall of Famers because Floyd fought 'em.

Your dislike of Mayweather seems to blind you to his achievement. I never was a fan of his either, and almost always rooted against him, but when all is said and done if the guy I was rooting against keeps winning, I have to simply tip my hat to the guy, and give him his props. You don't have to give Mayweather his props. There's a whole lot of people that never do. You can't please all the people all the time.

[Ambling Alp II]

This is about wheter I like a guy or not. I rank plenty of guys that I like below guys that I don't.

top 10 opponents?
Again, that can useful. and it can be very deceiving.
-First you are giving just as much credit for beat the #1 contender as you are for beating the #10 contender. That's a major flaw right there.
-You are also assuming that a ranked contender in a given weight class would be a ranked contender in another era.

Hall of Famers:
-Again there are Hall of Famers and there are Hall of Famers. A small % are among the greatest of all time. Some are not quite that good but better than your typical Hall of famer. some are your typical Hall of Famers. some are borderline whether they should be. And some have no business being in there. And there are guys who are in the HOF that easily could be.
Hatton and Gatti have no business being in there. some of the other guys that Mayweather beat are borderline.

-Then there is the fact that you are not considering the stage of a fighter's career. Pacquaio would be up there with the guys Leonard beat if he was in his prime. He wasn't completely shot, but he was nowhere close to his prime. That win is comparable to Leonard's win over Duran. They were fights that were just for the money.
Marques would have been a big win but he also was not in his prime or weight class.

It's not just Mayweather that I say this about. I can give scores of examples where a guy beat a Hall of Famer, and it doesn't mean much at all.
You are using superficial ways to look at things. You need to look a lot deeper.

[gilgamesh]

This is about wheter I like a guy or not. I rank plenty of guys that I like below guys that I don't.

top 10 opponents?
Again, that can useful. and it can be very deceiving.
-First you are giving just as much credit for beat the #1 contender as you are for beating the #10 contender. That's a major flaw right there.
-You are also assuming that a ranked contender in a given weight class would be a ranked contender in another era.

Hall of Famers:
-Again there are Hall of Famers and there are Hall of Famers. A small % are among the greatest of all time. Some are not quite that good but better than your typical Hall of famer. some are your typical Hall of Famers. some are borderline whether they should be. And some have no business being in there. And there are guys who are in the HOF that easily could be.
Hatton and Gatti have no business being in there. some of the other guys that Mayweather beat are borderline.

-Then there is the fact that you are not considering the stage of a fighter's career. Pacquaio would be up there with the guys Leonard beat if he was in his prime. He wasn't completely shot, but he was nowhere close to his prime. That win is comparable to Leonard's win over Duran. They were fights that were just for the money.
Marques would have been a big win but he also was not in his prime or weight class.

It's not just Mayweather that I say this about. I can give scores of examples where a guy beat a Hall of Famer, and it doesn't mean much at all.
You are using superficial ways to look at things. You need to look a lot deeper.

I watched all their fights. I've looked deeper than you. Mayweather and Corrales were the same size, both prime, Mayweather dominated him. He gets no credit from you. Mayweather and Hatton. Both unbeaten. Both prime. Mayweather knocked him out. Bubkus from you.

Canelo Alvarez. Making his 4th or 5th title defense I forget which, and then goes on to not lose again for the next decade. He couldn't win a round against Mayweather. NOBODY else to this day has beaten Canelo Alvarez that thoroughly, but Mayweather did, but I'm sure you only see a negative in that achievement as well right? Canelo wound up being an Undisputed Middleweight and Super Middleweight Champion, and is an obvious 1st ballot Hall of Famer.

Miguel Cotto still went on to become the Middleweight World Champion after being beaten by Floyd Mayweather Jr. He gave Mayweather one of his toughest bouts. He clearly wasn't washed up. He was as ready as he could've been, and Floyd beat him. Miguel Cotto is a damn good fighter, probably on par with the likes of say Carlos Palomino. Not an absolute Legend, but a damn solid fighter in his own right and worthy of his place in the Hall of Fame.

That's 5 big wins that ain't got nothing to do with Pacquiao.

Then he's got Mosley, De La Hoya, Maidana 2x, Zab Judah, Jesus Chavez, Carlos Hernandez, Andre Berto, Victor Ortiz, Gatti, Castillo, Marquez.

World Champions/Titleholders one and all. He beat more World Champions than Ray Leonard fought period. Probably twice as many.

More Championship wins than Leonard and Hearns COMBINED.

You can keep dismissing his record as if it's nothing if you want to, but the only thing it proves is that you're a stubborn guy who won't acknowledge facts.

[elmersalsa]

This is about wheter I like a guy or not. I rank plenty of guys that I like below guys that I don't.

top 10 opponents?
Again, that can useful. and it can be very deceiving.
-First you are giving just as much credit for beat the #1 contender as you are for beating the #10 contender. That's a major flaw right there.
-You are also assuming that a ranked contender in a given weight class would be a ranked contender in another era.

Hall of Famers:
-Again there are Hall of Famers and there are Hall of Famers. A small % are among the greatest of all time. Some are not quite that good but better than your typical Hall of famer. some are your typical Hall of Famers. some are borderline whether they should be. And some have no business being in there. And there are guys who are in the HOF that easily could be.
Hatton and Gatti have no business being in there. some of the other guys that Mayweather beat are borderline.

-Then there is the fact that you are not considering the stage of a fighter's career. Pacquaio would be up there with the guys Leonard beat if he was in his prime. He wasn't completely shot, but he was nowhere close to his prime. That win is comparable to Leonard's win over Duran. They were fights that were just for the money.
Marques would have been a big win but he also was not in his prime or weight class.

It's not just Mayweather that I say this about. I can give scores of examples where a guy beat a Hall of Famer, and it doesn't mean much at all.
You are using superficial ways to look at things. You need to look a lot deeper.

I watched all their fights. I've looked deeper than you. Mayweather and Corrales were the same size, both prime, Mayweather dominated him. He gets no credit from you. Mayweather and Hatton. Both unbeaten. Both prime. Mayweather knocked him out. Bubkus from you.

Canelo Alvarez. Making his 4th or 5th title defense I forget which, and then goes on to not lose again for the next decade. He couldn't win a round against Mayweather. NOBODY else to this day has beaten Canelo Alvarez that thoroughly, but Mayweather did, but I'm sure you only see a negative in that achievement as well right? Canelo wound up being an Undisputed Middleweight and Super Middleweight Champion, and is an obvious 1st ballot Hall of Famer.

Miguel Cotto still went on to become the Middleweight World Champion after being beaten by Floyd Mayweather Jr. He gave Mayweather one of his toughest bouts. He clearly wasn't washed up. He was as ready as he could've been, and Floyd beat him. Miguel Cotto is a damn good fighter, probably on par with the likes of say Carlos Palomino. Not an absolute Legend, but a damn solid fighter in his own right and worthy of his place in the Hall of Fame.

That's 5 big wins that ain't got nothing to do with Pacquiao.

Then he's got Mosley, De La Hoya, Maidana 2x, Zab Judah, Jesus Chavez, Carlos Hernandez, Andre Berto, Victor Ortiz, Gatti, Castillo, Marquez.

World Champions/Titleholders one and all. He beat more World Champions than Ray Leonard fought period. Probably twice as many.

More Championship wins than Leonard and Hearns COMBINED.

You can keep dismissing his record as if it's nothing if you want to, but the only think it proves is that you're a stubborn guy who won't acknowledge facts.

Well said. We gotta give the great Floyd Mayweather Jr his just due. To me, he is a top 10 all-time pound per pound great boxer. Like Sugar Ray Leonard, Pretty Boy Floyd was also the greatest boxer pound per pound of his generation. I got to put him above Leonard because of the longevity. Leonard had a very short career.

Leonard had only 7 fights in his last 15 years as a professional? That's not good.

[Ambling Alp II]

Jeff Fenech only ad 5 in his last 7 years.
Mike Tyson only had 1 in his last 22 years.
These are important and not misleading stats.

[gilgamesh]

It really doesn't matter at all how many fights they had in their last 15 years or 20 years. Certainly doesn't factor in at all to my ranking of them.

[Ambling Alp II]

This is about wheter I like a guy or not. I rank plenty of guys that I like below guys that I don't.

top 10 opponents?
Again, that can useful. and it can be very deceiving.
-First you are giving just as much credit for beat the #1 contender as you are for beating the #10 contender. That's a major flaw right there.
-You are also assuming that a ranked contender in a given weight class would be a ranked contender in another era.

Hall of Famers:
-Again there are Hall of Famers and there are Hall of Famers. A small % are among the greatest of all time. Some are not quite that good but better than your typical Hall of famer. some are your typical Hall of Famers. some are borderline whether they should be. And some have no business being in there. And there are guys who are in the HOF that easily could be.
Hatton and Gatti have no business being in there. some of the other guys that Mayweather beat are borderline.

-Then there is the fact that you are not considering the stage of a fighter's career. Pacquaio would be up there with the guys Leonard beat if he was in his prime. He wasn't completely shot, but he was nowhere close to his prime. That win is comparable to Leonard's win over Duran. They were fights that were just for the money.
Marques would have been a big win but he also was not in his prime or weight class.

It's not just Mayweather that I say this about. I can give scores of examples where a guy beat a Hall of Famer, and it doesn't mean much at all.
You are using superficial ways to look at things. You need to look a lot deeper.

I watched all their fights. I've looked deeper than you. Mayweather and Corrales were the same size, both prime, Mayweather dominated him. He gets no credit from you. Mayweather and Hatton. Both unbeaten. Both prime. Mayweather knocked him out. Bubkus from you.

Canelo Alvarez. Making his 4th or 5th title defense I forget which, and then goes on to not lose again for the next decade. He couldn't win a round against Mayweather. NOBODY else to this day has beaten Canelo Alvarez that thoroughly, but Mayweather did, but I'm sure you only see a negative in that achievement as well right? Canelo wound up being an Undisputed Middleweight and Super Middleweight Champion, and is an obvious 1st ballot Hall of Famer.

Miguel Cotto still went on to become the Middleweight World Champion after being beaten by Floyd Mayweather Jr. He gave Mayweather one of his toughest bouts. He clearly wasn't washed up. He was as ready as he could've been, and Floyd beat him. Miguel Cotto is a damn good fighter, probably on par with the likes of say Carlos Palomino. Not an absolute Legend, but a damn solid fighter in his own right and worthy of his place in the Hall of Fame.

That's 5 big wins that ain't got nothing to do with Pacquiao.

Then he's got Mosley, De La Hoya, Maidana 2x, Zab Judah, Jesus Chavez, Carlos Hernandez, Andre Berto, Victor Ortiz, Gatti, Castillo, Marquez.

World Champions/Titleholders one and all. He beat more World Champions than Ray Leonard fought period. Probably twice as many.

More Championship wins than Leonard and Hearns COMBINED.

You can keep dismissing his record as if it's nothing if you want to, but the only thing it proves is that you're a stubborn guy who won't acknowledge facts.

Corrales? What a legend.
Were any of these guys great, (and I don't mean good or not shot) great at the time that Mayweather beat them?
Any of them at the time that Mayweather fought them, as good as Duran, Hearns, Hagler, and Benitez at the time that Leonard beat them.

That would be no. So we are back to arguing that the 5th best guy that Mayweather was better than the 5th best guy that Leonard beat. Have never heard anyone ever make that argument before. Because it's silly.

He beat more WBS titleholders than Leonard? Congratulations.
He dominated Ricky Hatton? So what. Ricky Hatton was way overhyped. Should not even have got the decision against Luis Collazo. So yeah, bubkus.

[gilgamesh]

In the case of Canelo I'd say yes he was pretty much as good as any of those guys if not better, Canelo is going to wind up ranking pretty high on the all time list in his own right. He just didn't look good against Mayweather.

If we were making a list of who has more all time wins then yes Leonard would finish ahead of Mayweather. That's about the only way you can move the goal posts in such a way that Leonard is going to come out ahead though.

Also, you keep putting Benitez alongside Duran, Hearns and Hagler as if beating him is as big as beating them. It isn't.

[Ambling Alp II]

I don't move the goal posts. It's how I always rate fighters.
Weigh their best wins/performances against losses/bad performances. Losses to great opponents don't hurt you as much as loss to weaker opponents. closeness of the fights count to some degree.

You have to take into consideration the stage of the fighter's career and the stage of his opponent's career.
If film is available, it has to be figured in as well.

I have said this many times over the years. Sometimes guys that I like are better than guys I didn't. Sometimes not.

There has not been any moving of goal posts. At all.

[gilgamesh]

I don't move the goal posts. It's how I always rate fighters.
Weigh their best wins/performances against losses/bad performances. Losses to great opponents don't hurt you as much as loss to weaker opponents. closeness of the fights count to some degree.

You have to take into consideration the stage of the fighter's career and the stage of his opponent's career.
If film is available, it has to be figured in as well.

I have said this many times over the years. Sometimes guys that I like are better than guys I didn't. Sometimes not.

There has not been any moving of goal posts. At all.

I've taken absolutely everything into consideration. No matter how many times I say that, you repeat that that's what I need to do as if you can't read.

For Floyd's best wins you will insist that the guy he beat either wasn't good or was completely shot even if the facts say otherwise.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

This is about wheter I like a guy or not. I rank plenty of guys that I like below guys that I don't.

top 10 opponents?
Again, that can useful. and it can be very deceiving.
-First you are giving just as much credit for beat the #1 contender as you are for beating the #10 contender. That's a major flaw right there.
-You are also assuming that a ranked contender in a given weight class would be a ranked contender in another era.

Hall of Famers:
-Again there are Hall of Famers and there are Hall of Famers. A small % are among the greatest of all time. Some are not quite that good but better than your typical Hall of famer. some are your typical Hall of Famers. some are borderline whether they should be. And some have no business being in there. And there are guys who are in the HOF that easily could be.
Hatton and Gatti have no business being in there. some of the other guys that Mayweather beat are borderline.

-Then there is the fact that you are not considering the stage of a fighter's career. Pacquaio would be up there with the guys Leonard beat if he was in his prime. He wasn't completely shot, but he was nowhere close to his prime. That win is comparable to Leonard's win over Duran. They were fights that were just for the money.
Marques would have been a big win but he also was not in his prime or weight class.

It's not just Mayweather that I say this about. I can give scores of examples where a guy beat a Hall of Famer, and it doesn't mean much at all.
You are using superficial ways to look at things. You need to look a lot deeper.

I watched all their fights. I've looked deeper than you. Mayweather and Corrales were the same size, both prime, Mayweather dominated him. He gets no credit from you. Mayweather and Hatton. Both unbeaten. Both prime. Mayweather knocked him out. Bubkus from you.

Canelo Alvarez. Making his 4th or 5th title defense I forget which, and then goes on to not lose again for the next decade. He couldn't win a round against Mayweather. NOBODY else to this day has beaten Canelo Alvarez that thoroughly, but Mayweather did, but I'm sure you only see a negative in that achievement as well right? Canelo wound up being an Undisputed Middleweight and Super Middleweight Champion, and is an obvious 1st ballot Hall of Famer.

Miguel Cotto still went on to become the Middleweight World Champion after being beaten by Floyd Mayweather Jr. He gave Mayweather one of his toughest bouts. He clearly wasn't washed up. He was as ready as he could've been, and Floyd beat him. Miguel Cotto is a damn good fighter, probably on par with the likes of say Carlos Palomino. Not an absolute Legend, but a damn solid fighter in his own right and worthy of his place in the Hall of Fame.

That's 5 big wins that ain't got nothing to do with Pacquiao.

Then he's got Mosley, De La Hoya, Maidana 2x, Zab Judah, Jesus Chavez, Carlos Hernandez, Andre Berto, Victor Ortiz, Gatti, Castillo, Marquez.

World Champions/Titleholders one and all. He beat more World Champions than Ray Leonard fought period. Probably twice as many.

More Championship wins than Leonard and Hearns COMBINED.

You can keep dismissing his record as if it's nothing if you want to, but the only thing it proves is that you're a stubborn guy who won't acknowledge facts.

Corrales? What a legend.
Were any of these guys great, (and I don't mean good or not shot) great at the time that Mayweather beat them?
Any of them at the time that Mayweather fought them, as good as Duran, Hearns, Hagler, and Benitez at the time that Leonard beat them.

That would be no. So we are back to arguing that the 5th best guy that Mayweather was better than the 5th best guy that Leonard beat. Have never heard anyone ever make that argument before. Because it's silly.

He beat more WBS titleholders than Leonard? Congratulations.
He dominated Ricky Hatton? So what. Ricky Hatton was way overhyped. Should not even have got the decision against Luis Collazo. So yeah, bubkus.

Corrales won arguably the best fight in the history of boxing. Id conaider that legendary

[gilgamesh]

One of the greatest of this century so far without question.

Morales vs Barrera 1
Gatti vs Ward 1
and Corrales vs Castillo 1

Are the Gold Standard of the 21st century so far in terms of action.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

One of the greatest of this century so far without question.

Morales vs Barrera 1
Gatti vs Ward 1
and Corrales vs Castillo 1

Are the Gold Standard of the 21st century so far in terms of action.

Floyd beat him so easily people forget corrales was even money going into that fight - he knocked out undefeated robert garcia (corrales was the underdog) obliterated prime smoke gainer and angel manfreddy

After floyd he split with casamayor and knocked out undefeated popo freitas then had the wars with castillo

He was very very good. Floyd embarrassed him

[gilgamesh]

One of the greatest of this century so far without question.

Morales vs Barrera 1
Gatti vs Ward 1
and Corrales vs Castillo 1

Are the Gold Standard of the 21st century so far in terms of action.

Floyd beat him so easily people forget corrales was even money going into that fight - he knocked out undefeated robert garcia (corrales was the underdog) obliterated prime smoke gainer and angel manfreddy

After floyd he split with casamayor and knocked out undefeated popo freitas then had the wars with castillo

He was very very good. Floyd embarrassed him

People always forget stuff like that. Like they'll cut down Holyfield's victory over Mike Tyson because Mike Tyson was "past his prime" even though Holyfield entered the fight as a 25-1 underdog and was supposed to be washed up.

Or Pacquiao beat an old and drained De La Hoya, but De La Hoya was the favorite coming in and Pacquiao was too small, and he was attempting the impossible.

People never give the fighters full credit once they do the impossible thing. They find a reason why the other guy wasn't as good as they had thought he was.

[elmersalsa]

Floyd Mayweather, Jr was better than Sugar Ray Leonard.

Pound per pound? Yes. He is top 10.

Leonard? Doesn't make the top 10. Even though he had great wins on paper. He should have fought more. He had plenty of fights that he missed in the 80s decade. Like fights with Aaron Pryor, Donald Curry, Mike McCallum and Michael Nunn.

Seven fights in 15 years? Not good I'm my eyes. Definitely, not good. Let's not overrated one of the greatest in history in Sugar Ray Leonard.

[gilgamesh]

Floyd Mayweather, Jr was better than Sugar Ray Leonard.

Pound per pound? Yes. He is top 10.

Leonard? Doesn't make the top 10. Even though he had great wins on paper. He should have fought more. He had plenty of fights that he missed in the 80s decade. Like fights with Aaron Pryor, Donald Curry, Mike McCallum and Michael Nunn.

Seven fights in 15 years? Not good I'm my eyes. Definitely, not good. Let's not overrated one of the greatest in history in Sugar Ray Leonard.

I don't know why you keep bringing up the 7 fights in 15 years. That doesn't have sh*t to do with anything.

George Foreman had 0 fights between 1978 and 1986...so what? What difference does it make?

You rate guys off of what they DID not what they didn't do.

Leonard is certainly one of the Top 10 of the last 50 years I'm almost certainly, and in all likelihood one of the Top 15 or 20 of all time. He's in extremely rare company in the annals of Boxing history.

[cfang]

Mayweather has an objectively superior career to Leonard. Alp just won’t rate more current fighters so a waste of time going over and over this.