Mike tyson vs riddick bowe 1991?

[Ambling Alp II]

Holmes was doing better in 1992 than Carl Williams too, who was losing to Jerry Jones at the time. Didn't help Holmes much in 1985 when Larry was lucky to get a decision over him.

I wish a mod would step in and wave this thread off because your arguments are getting pummeled on all sides.

By who?

Larry Holmes beat Tim Witherspoon.
Larry Holmes beat Carl Williams.

Close fights he won is the best you guys can come up with to try to cut him down.

Most people had him losing to Williams. The blatant ducking is also a big problem

You could make a good case that it was the worst decision in the history of heavy weight boxing. Willoiams seemed to have won a one-sided decision. The judges somehow had the opposite. Holmes looked terrible.

[gilgamesh]

Lennox Lewis vs Holyfield 1 is probably the worst decision I've seen in Heavyweight Boxing. I had that one 10 rounds to 2 for Lewis

[Cojimar 1946]

Part of the problem with the lineage argument is that public attitudes have changed.

Back in the day you could draw the color line but today that wouldn't be acceptable and any fighter who tried to do it would immediately lose recognition as champ.

Suppose some racist south African won the title off Holmes and refused to fight Tyson and Holyfield who hence never held the lineal title. Would anyone be arguing that they weren't real champions? I suspect anyone who tried would be ridiculed.

[gilgamesh]

Part of the problem with the lineage argument is that public attitudes have changed.

Back in the day you could draw the color line but today that wouldn't be acceptable and any fighter who tried to do it would immediately lose recognition as champ.

Suppose some racist south African won the title off Holmes and refused to fight Tyson and Holyfield who hence never held the lineal title. Would anyone be arguing that they weren't real champions? I suspect anyone who tried would be ridiculed.

But that didn't happen.

And yes of course they'd be ridiculed. I can't imagine how hard and heavy the ridicule would come if you tried to draw the color line these days.

The Lineal Title is and always will be the most important of all Boxing Championships. There are title holders, and there are Champions. The only people who are Genuine Champions were Lineal Champions.

[Cojimar 1946]

Mike Tyson was the genuine champ without holding lineage though

The general public has moved beyond lineage when it comes to deciding who the champ is

[gilgamesh]

Mike Tyson was the genuine champ without holding lineage though

The general public has moved beyond lineage when it comes to deciding who the champ is

Tyson won the Lineal title. He held lineage. Nobody that was ever considered to be THE MAN ever didn't capture the lineage.

On very rare occasions somebody that wasn't considered THE MAN captured it and didn't hold it long, because THE MAN is always there to take it away from the pretender in every era without fail.

[Cojimar 1946]

The fact that the public considered him the real champ prior to being lineal proves lineal doesn't matter to the general public anymore.

In 1987 Tyson was considered the champ and not Spinks

[Cojimar 1946]

Wlad was also widely considered the MAN without ever clearly establishing lineage or unifying

[gilgamesh]

Wlad was also widely considered the MAN without ever clearly establishing lineage or unifying

He unified 3 of the 4 belts and beat all of the most noteworthy contenders save for his Brother and established a new lineage.

It wasn't as fully established as other Lineal Champions, but it was as good as it could've been considering the circumstances of his era. Shame we never got Wlad vs Wilder or Stiverne for all 4 belts.

[gilgamesh]

The fact that the public considered him the real champ prior to being lineal proves lineal doesn't matter to the general public anymore.

In 1987 Tyson was considered the champ and not Spinks

And yet Tyson and his team still felt the need to beat Spinks because Lineal mattered to them, and mattered enough that the public wanted that fight.

[keithmoonhangover]

The fact that the public considered him the real champ prior to being lineal proves lineal doesn't matter to the general public anymore.

In 1987 Tyson was considered the champ and not Spinks

Got any facts to back that up?