Best fighters from various countries

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 06 Nov 2006, 11:57

Wales and Scotland are no countries. Just provinces.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 06 Nov 2006, 20:18

pundit wrote:Wales and Scotland are no countries. Just provinces.

Who told you that?

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 06 Nov 2006, 22:47

Decagon wrote:They're just provinces in the British Empire, like Australia, which isn't a country, either.

That's the 2nd time you've mumbled something about Australia not being a country. Care to elaborate?

I hope it involves David Icke and the blood drinking shape shifting lizards who secretly rule the world...

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 06 Nov 2006, 23:38

Decagon wrote:They're just provinces in the British Empire, like Australia, which isn't a country, either.

So are you saying the British Empire is a country?

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 07 Nov 2006, 00:31

I didn't get the newsflash when Australia lost its independence.

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 07 Nov 2006, 02:05

So does Hawaii, what is that supposed to mean?

DonCorleone · Post by **DonCorleone** » 07 Nov 2006, 02:39

Australia is definately an independant country now. Once upon a time the brits could draw on australian youth to waste in botched military campaigns - not any more.
The yanks, however seem to be able to send British soldiers into pointless and badly managed campaigns at will. I'd say that the Auzzies are more independant than the brits.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 07 Nov 2006, 05:19

Decagon wrote:They're just provinces in the British Empire, like Australia, which isn't a country, either.

There is no "British Empire" any more Dec, just the Commonwealth which is a co-operative pact by a number of countries formerly in the British Empire.
All the countries in the Commonwealth are independent democracies, although the Queen of England is nominally head of state, but the real power lies with the elected governments.
Scotland and Wales are countries within the United Kingdom, both have a certain amount of power devolved to them and are run at a local level by parliaments in Edinburgh and Cardiff.

theone · Post by **theone** » 07 Nov 2006, 08:49

It isn't as cut-and-dry as that, though. Who did Chavez beat that was as good as Azuma Nelson or Danny Lopez? Sanchez might have been young, but he had a full career.

Meldrick Taylor and Edwin Rosario were much better fighters than Lopez and the green Nelson that fought Sanchez. Fighters like Roger Mayweather and Jose Luis Ramirez were, at the very least, as good as Lopez.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 07 Nov 2006, 11:05

dr_devious wrote:
Decagon wrote:They're just provinces in the British Empire, like Australia, which isn't a country, either.
There is no "British Empire" any more Dec, just the Commonwealth which is a co-operative pact by a number of countries formerly in the British Empire.
All the countries in the Commonwealth are independent democracies, although the Queen of England is nominally head of state, but the real power lies with the elected governments.
Scotland and Wales are countries within the United Kingdom, both have a certain amount of power devolved to them and are run at a local level by parliaments in Edinburgh and Cardiff.

US or German states or even Spanish and Canadian provinces have far more power devolved to them than Wales (whose "power" is comparable to a US county) or even Scotland. If you include Wales and Scotland as countries, please include California, Bavaria, Andalucia and Ontario, too.

Australia is a country, of course, although the Head of State is a foreigner.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 07 Nov 2006, 11:40

Nationality has more of an emotional definition than is being posited here. I know families in which some consider themselves Italian-Americans and others Italians with more in common with Europe. In Britain many people consider themselves Britsh whilst others identify more with their parents' nationalities Jamaican/Indian/Pakistani.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 07 Nov 2006, 11:54

Man has this thread taken a boring turn.

Thunder and Lightning · Post by **Thunder and Lightning** » 07 Nov 2006, 13:54

Sweden: Ingemar Johansson
Norway: Pete Sanstol

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 07 Nov 2006, 15:38

Decagon wrote:I didn't get the newsflash when Australia gained its independence. It still has the Union Jack in its flag.

That's your 'evidence', zac?

As someone else has pointed out, Hawaii has the union flag within it's state flag. Is Hawaii part of the British empire too? I never saw any 'bobbies' on the force with Steve and Danno.

Come on, add some more 'info' and give us all another laugh.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 07 Nov 2006, 16:06

Getting back to reality.

Has anyone done New Zealand? How about The Torpedo?

Here's an extract from some web page:

“Torpedo Billy” Murphy, the fragile-looking little Aucklander who hit like a heavyweight, despite his 8½ stone, put New Zealand boxing on the map when he knocked out Ike Weir, the “Belfast Spider”, in 14 rounds at San Francisco in 1890 to become world featherweight champion. He was the only native New Zealander ever to win a world title. These, and men like Harry Laing, who in Sydney knocked out Joe Goddard for the Australian heavyweight title, and Dan Creedon, who campaigned with great distinction in the United States (and actually fought Fitzsimmons for the world middleweight championship), were the immortals who wrote the early chapters in New Zealand's boxing history.

More recently, there have been post-war peaks, such as that associated with the defeat of the world-ranked Australian dual champion, Vic Patrick, by the young Bos Murphy in 1946; and again by the rise of the boyish-looking southpaw, Barry Brown, culminating in 1954 with his knock-out defeat of Gerald Dreyer, the South African holder of the British Empire welterweight championship. Murphy was New Zealand's first Empire champion (defeating Vince Hawkins, of England, in London); Brown was the first to win a crown in a home ring."

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 07 Nov 2006, 16:44

No way is Buchanan Scotland's best, one of them yes, but the threads looking for BEST...Scotlands best - Talent First

Benny Lynch
Bert Gilroy
Elky Clark
Tommy Milligan
Alex Lafferty
Ken Buchanan
Cowboy McCormack
Chic Calderwood

the order could vary a bit, especially with Clark, Lafferty & Milligan...Lafferty was said to be some boxer, and Tancy Lee could be slotted in somewhere as well...mayby Barry or some of the knowledgable historians could offer placements.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 07 Nov 2006, 16:56

jimglen wrote:No way is Buchanan Scotland's best, one of them yes, but the threads looking for BEST...Scotlands best - Talent First

Benny Lynch
Bert Gilroy
Elky Clark
Tommy Milligan
Alex Lafferty
Ken Buchanan
Cowboy McCormack
Chic Calderwood

the order could vary a bit, especially with Clark, Lafferty & Milligan...Lafferty was said to be some boxer, and Tancy Lee could be slotted in somewhere as well...mayby Barry or some of the knowledgable historians could offer placements.

I'd put Buchanan over the others with the possible exception of Lynch.

The others are 2nd tier at best.

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 07 Nov 2006, 17:47

2cd tier, at best (???)

let me offer a little insight if I may,

Elky Clark - placed in Nat Fleischer's Top 10 All-time greatest Flyweights list right up to round about the 1960's, along with Lynch & Jimmy Wilde...

Tancy Lee a 'forgotten' British great held a victory over Jimmy Wilde among others...

Alex Lafferty already mentioned...

Chic Calderwood often spoken of before Cowboy McCormack, because of his fight with Willie Pastriano ('achievements before Talent, WRONG), yet the Cowboy knocked him out (Calderwood), and had his 'own' distinguished career...incidently an 'ageing' Archie Moore declined a battle with Calderwood stating; "your to young and I'm told old" in other words I don't fancy the dance, Thank You! Thats say plenty about both these men Cowboy and Calderwood.

Milligan was/is a highly regarded British/Scottish Champion who's World Title fight with Mickey Walker was reportedly going very well for Milligan untill the stoppage in the 10th from a Walker uppercut...

Bert Gilroy found himself at 'odds' with 5 British and World Boxing greats from Welterweight to Heavyweight (Roderick, McAvoy, Mills, Woodcock), and including a young and 'up and coming' Randolph Turpin and lets not forget "Suicidal negotiations" (makingweight - 1947, nearly 3 years a L-HW at this point), for the Great Cerdan fight!!!

2cd tier??? I HARDLY THINK SO!

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 07 Nov 2006, 18:36

jimglen wrote:2cd tier, at best (???)

let me offer a little insight if I may,

Elky Clark - placed in Nat Fleischer's Top 10 All-time greatest Flyweights list right up to round about the 1960's, along with Lynch & Jimmy Wilde...

Tancy Lee a 'forgotten' British great held a victory over Jimmy Wilde among others...

Alex Lafferty already mentioned...

Chic Calderwood often spoken of before Cowboy McCormack, because of his fight with Willie Pastriano ('achievements before Talent, WRONG), yet the Cowboy knocked him out (Calderwood), and had his 'own' distinguished career...incidently an 'ageing' Archie Moore declined a battle with Calderwood stating; "your to young and I'm told old" in other words I don't fancy the dance, Thank You! Thats say plenty about both these men Cowboy and Calderwood.

Milligan was/is a highly regarded British/Scottish Champion who's World Title fight with Mickey Walker was reportedly going very well for Milligan untill the stoppage in the 10th from a Walker uppercut...

Bert Gilroy found himself at 'odds' with 5 British and World Boxing greats from Welterweight to Heavyweight (Roderick, McAvoy, Mills, Woodcock), and including a young and 'up and coming' Randolph Turpin and lets not forget "Suicidal negotiations" (makingweight - 1947, nearly 3 years a L-HW at this point), for the Great Cerdan fight!!!

2cd tier??? I HARDLY THINK SO!

Jim, you still don't understand do you?

Not everyone, no matter how much we love them as people, can be in the 1st tier of fighters.

If everyone was in the 1st tier there would be no point in this forum, in any lists or any discussion. In fact, there would be no point in boxing at all.

People like Gilroy did not achieve any thing like the results Buchanan did; that is why Ken is in the first tier and your granddad isn't. No other reason.

Les Darcy · Post by **Les Darcy** » 08 Nov 2006, 00:12

The only reason the union jack is still in Australia's flag is we're too lazy to change it.

DonCorleone · Post by **DonCorleone** » 08 Nov 2006, 02:54

Who is the best Mexican boxer?
On page two of the thread I have quoted the list of countries put up by barry. I am editing the list, putting boxers names by the countries as their names are put forward.
Scotland and Mexico have not been decisively decided.
I go for Chavez and Lynch - but only just, both very close.

Les Darcy · Post by **Les Darcy** » 08 Nov 2006, 07:58

Decagon wrote:
Les Darcy wrote:The only reason the union jack is still in Australia's flag is we're too lazy to change it.
I know; I was just joshing. Following the American Civil War, many Southern states kept the Confederate Flag as part of their state flags. Up until the 1980s, the "Southern Cross" was still viewed by the masses of the South as a symbol of heritage and history, but in the uber-PC 1990s, it became viewed, perhaps unfortunately, as a hate symbol. I hope you don't mind a digression. I stopped taking my Percocet yesterday, and rambling is a hobby I quite enjoy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... aflags.jpg
The State Flags of Georgia since 1920

From the 1890s onward, there has been a movement among Southern states to incorporate the Southern Cross in their state flags, as I mentioned above. Georgia introduced the Southern Battle Flag as part of its state flag in 1955, and it remained a part of the flag until a mere half decade ago. A pair of years later, the flag was again reconstituted to resemble the original flag of Georgia, but with the addition of thirteen stars, used to represent the 13 Confederate states.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... pi.svg.png
Mississippi, one of the poorest and least-educated states in the Union, still uses the Southern Battle Flag as part of its flag design

The Southern Cross has been a part of Mississippi's State flag since 1894. In 1993, it was discovered that the flag pictured above was never made the official flag of Mississippi; the NAACP sued, hoping to get rid of the abomination, but the Governor of Mississippi gave an executive order, making the flag official. Worse yet, a year later, in a general election, 2/3 of the citizens voted to maintain the Confederate-infested flag.

Further, Alabama, Arkansas and Florida all have flags reminiscent of the Confederate flag. I, for one, prefer the more subtle reference to the C.S.A. flag, and don't think those, or Georgia's, merit change. Of course, it'd be nice to see the Mississippi flag, pictured above, altered. Perhaps, if the Confederate flag hadn't been connected with hate groups, it could have survived. Southern rockers such as Tom Petty and the Allman Brothers used it on album covers and in concerts, but pressure has disabused them from using it further, and perhaps for the best.

Yeah I know you were messing, if I thought you were serious I would of replied with a lot more then that.

If no one else has mentioned it, Les Darcy is my pick as Australia's greatest boxer.

DonCorleone · Post by **DonCorleone** » 08 Nov 2006, 09:14

You already said that.
It's been on the list for two days.

:P

Les Darcy · Post by **Les Darcy** » 08 Nov 2006, 10:30

DonCorleone wrote:You already said that.
It's been on the list for two days. :P

It wasn't me who said it, it's obvious someone else is as smart as I am.
What have I done to make you treat me so disrespectfully?

DonCorleone · Post by **DonCorleone** » 09 Nov 2006, 02:46

Les Darcy wrote:
DonCorleone wrote:You already said that.
It's been on the list for two days. :P
It wasn't me who said it, it's obvious someone else is as smart as I am.
What have I done to make you treat me so disrespectfully?

Sorry mate, didn't mean to come across all disrespectful like. I was emphasising the fact that i took notice of your earlier opinion, not the fact that you repeated it - which you didn't anyway, coz it wasn't you!
(to tell you the truth, I am enjoying this thread coz the list is on my post, and I am the only one who can edit it 8) . The notion of power has gone to my head

)