Floyd Mayweather is saving boxing!

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 07 Feb 2007, 06:57

glittermonkey wrote:Mayweather? The saviour of boxing? A joke surely?

By and large the younger, more casual fans want to see bell to bell action. Toe to toe wars that end with one of the fighters brutally knocked out. There is little appreciation of skills or what we'd consider to be actual boxing. It's all about getting that gratifying hit of violence, without having to participate in it themselves. Just look at the reaction to men who box their way to victory in the states. Christ, they've even given Barrera and Winky the bird recently.

Mayweather, for all his ability and larger than life personality, can't provide the majority of fans what they crave. If anything, recent performances may be turning people off boxing. He just doesn't have the kind of style that will bring in more fans. Great fighter? Yes. Saviour of the sport? No.

I agree. Also he has a vacant personality.

As brilliant as he is Floyd comes across as a monomaniacal selfish talent so will earn big $ the easy way - beating on an overmatched Gatti, fighting Baldomir on the run. He's an excellent fighter but very unappealing and he's hardly going to be rated an equal to Leonard if his mega fight was a former journeyman called Baldomir.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Feb 2007, 12:08

Yes, this is true, Floyd hasn't taken any big risks in a while now, since he left lightweight his main interest is earning titles and

Leonard was considered a glory boy, but look at who he has faced, Benitez, Hearns, Duran, hell, he even took on Terry Norris when he was well past his best. Could anyone see Mayweather coming off a long retirement to face a monster like Hagler at say welterweight? Leonard said he saw something that told him he could beat Hagler, but it was still a massive risk, many thought it practically suicidal at the time.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 07 Feb 2007, 12:16

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, this is true, Floyd hasn't taken any big risks in a while now, since he left lightweight his main interest is earning titles and

Leonard was considered a glory boy, but look at who he has faced, Benitez, Hearns, Duran, hell, he even took on Terry Norris when he was well past his best. Could anyone see Mayweather coming off a long retirement to face a monster like Hagler at say welterweight? Leonard said he saw something that told him he could beat Hagler, but it was still a massive risk, many thought it practically suicidal at the time.

Many diss Leonard but he is possibly my favourite fighter of all time.

In terms of natural skill he has few peers and as you say James, his level of opposition is fantastic; especially later in his career (special contractual arrangements notwithstanding.)

Mayweather cant carry SRL's jockstrap in terms of opposition levels, application of talent or level of impact on world sport.

PBF better have an exceptional last few years in boxing if he wants to catch the sugar man up..

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Feb 2007, 12:27

As far as Floyd is concerned, he's already overtaken Ray Leonard, he is the type, like Roy Jones, who doesn't really care what others say or think, he is a legend in his own mind, first and foremost. The hunger I think left Mayweather some time ago, which is a shame.

With Leonard, the hunger never really left, even when his legacy was well and truly secure. Even without the win over Hagler, he would still have gone down as a hall of famer, but even after that he wanted to challenge LaLonde, Norris and ill-advisedly, Hector Camacho.

I am sure that Mayweather will find his way into the hall of fame, as they have lowered the bar considerably on the criteria to be inducted, but his overall impact on the sport is negligible compared to the 2nd Sugar Man.

OLD-LONDON-RULES · Post by **OLD-LONDON-RULES** » 07 Feb 2007, 12:39

jamesmcdonnell wrote: The hunger I think left Mayweather some time ago, which is a shame.

Please tell me how your brain came to that conclusion?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Feb 2007, 12:47

Because he is content picking up belts against guys he knows he can beat. He hasn't taken any big risks since beating Castillo.

Loynesy · Post by **Loynesy** » 07 Feb 2007, 12:52

James is ugly enough and bright enough to answer for himself, but since Castillo II it can be argued Floyd has made little effort to either (i) engage the best in each division and has cherry picked titles or (ii) when he has fought, has been unduly cautious.

I think point (i) is negated by the fact he is fighting Oscar - clearly the riskiest fight out there for him (I don't rate Margarito and think Cotto would be made mincemeat of). Point (ii) will be answered by how he fights the Golden Boy.

On the central topic of this thread, I think Floyd's trashtalking actually alienates the potential boxing fan. Ali was the only real trash talker who obtained crossover appeal but at the time of his fights, many wanted to see him lose. Soemone like Tyson, who was the last real crossver star, was brutal in the ring but far more respectful of the sport and its history than Floyd has ever been.

OLD-LONDON-RULES · Post by **OLD-LONDON-RULES** » 07 Feb 2007, 12:53

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Because he is content picking up belts against guys he knows he can beat. He hasn't taken any big risks since beating Castillo.

LOL,Are you talking about HATTON now?

Loynesy · Post by **Loynesy** » 07 Feb 2007, 12:58

OLD-LONDON-RULES wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Because he is content picking up belts against guys he knows he can beat. He hasn't taken any big risks since beating Castillo.
LOL,Are you talking about HATTON now?

OLR - they are completely different debates. You can't rebut a criticism of one fighter by simply claiming another fighter has been worse at that particular fault.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Feb 2007, 13:03

OLD-LONDON-RULES wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Because he is content picking up belts against guys he knows he can beat. He hasn't taken any big risks since beating Castillo.
LOL,Are you talking about HATTON now?

Hatton is nothing to do with this at all. My opinion of Hatton doesn't come into this one bit.

Mayweather is a very talented fighter, but his career peaked 3 years ago, he's done nothing since to match what he achieved then. Beating an overhyped Judah, Baldomir and Gatti, really does nothing to impress me.

With the DLH fight, he is taking a calculated risk, because he believes that Oscar will have slipped enough for him to emerge victorious, I applaud him for that, but I would rather he had cleaned house at 140, which would have impressed me a great deal more than moving up and cherry picking at 147.

OLD-LONDON-RULES · Post by **OLD-LONDON-RULES** » 07 Feb 2007, 13:33

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
OLD-LONDON-RULES wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Because he is content picking up belts against guys he knows he can beat. He hasn't taken any big risks since beating Castillo.
LOL,Are you talking about HATTON now?
Hatton is nothing to do with this at all. My opinion of Hatton doesn't come into this one bit.

Mayweather is a very talented fighter, but his career peaked 3 years ago, he's done nothing since to match what he achieved then. Beating an overhyped Judah, Baldomir and Gatti, really does nothing to impress me.

With the DLH fight, he is taking a calculated risk, because he believes that Oscar will have slipped enough for him to emerge victorious, I applaud him for that, but I would rather he had cleaned house at 140, which would have impressed me a great deal more than moving up and cherry picking at 147.

I stil think the best of PBF is to come, win, lose or draw.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Feb 2007, 14:19

I wish I shared your optimism, however his recent actions suggest to me that if he beats DLH he may well quit. I hope it's all bullshit, I think he has the skills to do more, although he should not be campaigning at 154.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 07 Feb 2007, 16:31

I may be unpopular here but I remember all the Clay/Ali fights and the exciting Clay eventually turned into the boring Ali - His predictions were all wrong, he became very sedentry and hadnt KOd anybody in a long while - Nobody gave him any chance of beating Forman based on recent performances but as we all know he caused the upset and won the fight - He had charisma, he had persona and a lot of talent - He was exciting to watch but to my mind as far as HWs are concerned Tyson was even more exciting - Boxing has had many greats, too many to mention not just Ali - Its the same with pop music, solo artist Elvis and group the Beatles - No matter what anyone else does the same names stay at the top maybe they should maybe they shouldnt - My view is Ali was ONE of the greatest, not THE greatest of all time - Joe Louis was another legend of the ring and a remarkable man as well - Our own Henry Cooper had he not cut so easily could have been the world champ - The HW division isnt as exciting as it has been in the past, Lewis left a vacuum when he retired but hopefully there will be a new kid on the block before long. No particular boxer will save boxing, it will survive regardless.

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 07 Feb 2007, 18:49

OLD-LONDON-RULES wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote: The hunger I think left Mayweather some time ago, which is a shame.
Please tell me how your brain came to that conclusion?

there is no better-conditioned boxer IN THE SPORT than PBF!! that comes from competitive hunger & he will show up in the best shape of his life on 5/5!! too many folks allow their personal distaste for floyd to cloud their view of his phenomenal discipline & dedication!!

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 07 Feb 2007, 18:51

OLD-LONDON-RULES wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:
OLD-LONDON-RULES wrote: LOL,Are you talking about HATTON now?
Hatton is nothing to do with this at all. My opinion of Hatton doesn't come into this one bit.

Mayweather is a very talented fighter, but his career peaked 3 years ago, he's done nothing since to match what he achieved then. Beating an overhyped Judah, Baldomir and Gatti, really does nothing to impress me.

With the DLH fight, he is taking a calculated risk, because he believes that Oscar will have slipped enough for him to emerge victorious, I applaud him for that, but I would rather he had cleaned house at 140, which would have impressed me a great deal more than moving up and cherry picking at 147.
I stil think the best of PBF is to come, win, lose or draw.

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 07 Feb 2007, 18:53

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I wish I shared your optimism, however his recent actions suggest to me that if he beats DLH he may well quit. I hope it's all bullshit, I think he has the skills to do more, although he should not be campaigning at 154.

nobody shy of 160 has a better chance of beating him than oscar...PBF dominates spinks, karmazin, simms, garcia, etc!!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Feb 2007, 18:53

Henry would not have been heavyweight champion. He did well against Ali in the first fight, before Ali was champion, but his management rightly stayed right away from Liston, because they knew he would get badly mauled. Henry wanted the fight, but they saved him from himself.

Cooper was eminently beatable, he had a good dig for a small man, but he wasn't physically imposing enough. He was knocked out by Zora Folley, Ingamar Johannsen, Floyd Patterson, Joe Bygraves and Peter Bates, heaven alone knows what Liston would have done to him.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Feb 2007, 20:31

Liston would have anhilated him, much to strong also the fact that Henry was a late developer and wasn't at his own peak untill the late 60's. My old man, and many others of the generation actually believe he was getting better and better as the years went by. Certainly, he didn't look shot vs Bugner.

But as you said Liston would have munched him..... but Jimmy Ellis for the WBC title (which was called for but the BBBoC rejected the title... my how times have changed) would have been interesting and tougher to call.

I do wonder how Liston would have done if he was aloud to fight in the Heavyweight title tournament post Ali's first reign. He only lost on one other time after Ali and really did deserve a place in the tourney (of course, I can perfectly understand the reasons why he wasn't named).

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 08 Feb 2007, 00:43

stujones wrote:Liston would have anhilated him, much to strong also the fact that Henry was a late developer and wasn't at his own peak untill the late 60's. My old man, and many others of the generation actually believe he was getting better and better as the years went by. Certainly, he didn't look shot vs Bugner.

But as you said Liston would have munched him..... but Jimmy Ellis for the WBC title (which was called for but the BBBoC rejected the title... my how times have changed) would have been interesting and tougher to call.

I do wonder how Liston would have done if he was aloud to fight in the Heavyweight title tournament post Ali's first reign. He only lost on one other time after Ali and really did deserve a place in the tourney (of course, I can perfectly understand the reasons why he wasn't named).

liston was ravaged prematurely by heroin...as evidenced by the way he brushed off the canvas before softly lying down for 10-count in 2nd ali fight!! even ali was taken by surprise, as shown by the way he screamed at sonny to get up!! :(

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Feb 2007, 07:09

Nobody who knew Sonny Liston ever heard about him shooting up or saw him shooting up. It's more likely that he was bumped off by his dodgy connections who wanted to make it look like a suicide. Liston was a big big drinker, but he was never known to have taken illegal drugs. Read the book 'night train' it's got quite a bit on the subject.

The second Ali fight remains controversial, we cannot be sure what happened, but the first fight was another matter, Ali was dominating Liston towards the point where the fight ended, and the fact that Liston's people put linament on his gloves to try and blind Ali suggests that they wanted their man to win.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:20

shoutout2u wrote:
OLD-LONDON-RULES wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote: The hunger I think left Mayweather some time ago, which is a shame.
Please tell me how your brain came to that conclusion?
there is no better-conditioned boxer IN THE SPORT than PBF!! that comes from competitive hunger & he will show up in the best shape of his life on 5/5!! too many folks allow their personal distaste for floyd to cloud their view of his phenomenal discipline & dedication!!

that's very true - he's always prepared, barely goes over his fighting weight and takes nothing for granted. He's just not everyone's cup of tea and IMO Baldomir made a mess of welterweight with his shock win, which given his limited abilities and Judah's lack of focus demeaned both of Floyd's big wins. That's why so many want Floyd to fight all these top level welters like Cotto, Margarito, Williams, though obviously they can all fight each other.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:30

I agree James, we will never know what happend in the second Ali vs Liston fight. I think it was a peach of a shot that caught him right and left his head spinning. Just my take. Only evidence I have is from what I can see of after the fight. Remember, Walcott did an appaulingly slow count - Liston (and Ali) thought he beat the count, Liston CONTINUED only for Walcott to be called back by the time keeper that Liston was down for mre than 10 seconds.

However, as Liston did get up - his legs still looked unsteady but he was still trying to fight on. For me, sign of a fighter who didn't want to quit but was out of it. If he wanted to quit, why didn't he just lay there for minutes.

Only other thing is I heard Gill Clancy say one of his fighters took a similar punch from Ali and he was out of it aswell. It looked like a nothing punch, but it caught him right.

Just my take on it - not sure what this fight has as "proof" that Liston was on heorin. Although, having never taken it or seen anyone take it I'm not sure I am best qualified to answer.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 08 Feb 2007, 08:56

Floyd Mayweather Jr...Sonny Liston.

Did I lose the plot somewhere?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Feb 2007, 09:07

That is a subject of some debate....

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 08 Feb 2007, 09:43

I thought I'd just become a bozz eyed twit