M'Baye V Kotelnik

Les Kendal · Post by **Les Kendal** » 11 Mar 2007, 08:27

Not bad enough to be called a robbery but I thought Kotelnik did enough to win it by a couple of rounds at least.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 11 Mar 2007, 08:36

viciousmaussa wrote:A very bad decision. Here is my card: 116-112. M'Baye was aimless and confused. I like him, he's a good fighter, but come on, he was so undeserving. He gets a draw on an SN show where the promoter is already making big investments into Khan's world title future. Put it this way, the WBO interim - leading to the full version - 135 title slipped by the other week, didn't it? When Earl was beaten.

Warren will do anything he can for Khan, including DEBASING the great Mario Kindelan. The guy will stop at nothing.

A card is where you tell us how you scored each round - do you have 1?

What your neglecting to mention is the fact that Kotelnik got outsped, outlanded while he did little in many of those rounds. Your also neglecting to mention is that Kotelnik did sweet FA for the first 4 rounds (although I had him winning 1), he also clearly lost 9 and 10 and a middle round or 2.

I prefered Kotelniks work BUT he didn't win enough rounds to seal a win yet again.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 11 Mar 2007, 08:55

The whole fight was waged on Kotelnik's terms. Outsped? There were only 2 whole rds where MB was able to hit & move at will. Outlanded? AK put the pressure on & with his tight guard/footwork knew how to negate the shots and used his boxing brain to get right back on top of the guy.

You're far to impressed by flash and "obvious" stuff. No I didn't do a scorecard - do you have to have a scorecard to have an opinion? When watching the fight I focused on the margin that I felt Ak was winning by. Which was 3 or 4 rds. Rather than memorising which rounds I gave to which fighter.

Nyapper · Post by **Nyapper** » 11 Mar 2007, 09:33

The Frog only won cos of Khan! Why would Warren outbid Universum Boxen only to show the fight on ITV4, giving it as undercard to some Scouser WBU fight? The fix was in boys and girls.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 11 Mar 2007, 10:10

viciousmaussa wrote:The whole fight was waged on Kotelnik's terms. Outsped? There were only 2 whole rds where MB was able to hit & move at will. Outlanded? AK put the pressure on & with his tight guard/footwork knew how to negate the shots and used his boxing brain to get right back on top of the guy.

You're far to impressed by flash and "obvious" stuff. No I didn't do a scorecard - do you have to have a scorecard to have an opinion? When watching the fight I focused on the margin that I felt Ak was winning by. Which was 3 or 4 rds. Rather than memorising which rounds I gave to which fighter.

So you didnt have a scorecard, yet you think it was a robbery......

I'm not impressed by flashyness over substance (I could accuse you of been over influenced by Kotelnik flurrying at the end of rounds). But the fact reminds Mbaiye LANDED (to the face not just the gloves) plenty of scoring shots. All the rounds were close with each fighter having their moments. many rounds could go either way. The punch stats would make interesting reading.

Kotelnik won the second half of the fight, BUT he lost a load of the early rounds because of innactivity and all the rounds were close.

If you prefer Kotelniks work thats fine, I did myself, I much prefer cleaner effective shots to pitter patter shots any day of the week. Mbaiye did hurt Kotelnik quite a few times himself

Kotelnik just didn't win enough rounds outright to win the fight. I had it 7 rounds to 5 or maybe 6 rounds to 6, to Mbaiye myself - Kotelnik had the bigger rounds but Mbaiye won more rounds.

I as a Witter fan would have prefered Kotelnik to win BUT I remain objective. The fact remains it was a very close fight and most people who know boxing would find it hard to get a wider than 7-5 either way. But many close rounds means you could go by preference for any of those close rounds.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 11 Mar 2007, 10:12

Also I don't think the judges were bought off. If they were 2 of them would have been bought for Mbaiye - unless there was allot of last miniute money on the draw.

JC · Post by JC » 11 Mar 2007, 10:13

It kind of reminded me of Miranda Abraham with one guy throwing a lot more but hitting arms and gloves and the other waiting out most of the round and getting through with short bursts of punches.

I'd quite like to watch it again now, only had half an eye on it at the time, and the draw seemed an OK result, I'd like to take a closer look at Kotelnik's work.

Scrap · Post by **Scrap** » 11 Mar 2007, 11:41

Kotelnik pissed the fight, he was the boss in every department. mbaye was leaving the parish to avoid the punch,, and taking the wrong bus back in. He was all show with no go, he got educated.

vargas · Post by **vargas** » 11 Mar 2007, 14:49

Watching the fight live I scored it 115-115. After watching it again this morning I scored it 116-115 to Kotelnik. The fight was by no means a robbery IMO, but you have to feel sorry for Kotelnik as he never seems to get a close decision in his favour.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 11 Mar 2007, 14:50

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Also I don't think the judges were bought off. If they were 2 of them would have been bought for Mbaiye - unless there was allot of last miniute money on the draw.

Here's my modified opinion. I watched it again & to my shock I scored it 7-5 Kotelnik, as opposed to the previous 8-4. So if I had 1 round different, I could've had it a draw. After serious thought, Kotelnik was a bit UNLUCKY, rather than ROBBED.

Yes, you can make a case for what M'Baye did. I just think nothing he did could really deter Kotelnik who usually got him right back for his good work.

That's why I should avoid day after discussions, because I often change my mind & say something I eventually don't quite agree with, LOL.

I don't think the judges were paid off but if they could help out Mr Warren and put some insurance on Khan's future world title...If it mean giving a crucial close round to M'Baye rather than Kotelnik, I'm sure they wouldn't have scruples.

I have to say it does look a bit of a coincidence that he loses every close fight away from home. He'd win them all at home and no one would complain.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 11 Mar 2007, 15:38

Universum are protesting.

Why don't they protest to Andreas that he should fight for more than a minute a round?

http://www.boxnews.com.ua/news.php?id=3245&lng=en

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 11 Mar 2007, 15:50

The problem with Kotelnik is that he doesn't do much behind his high guard apart from moving in front of his opponent and taking a lot of punches on the gloves, arms, elbows and opens up for a period with some punches that land and some that do not. His aggression can not be designated as either effective or sustained.

I agree with P-N in that there were a lot of rounds that was difficult to score and it is these rounds that ultimately decides the outcome on the judges scorecards. I had M’Baye by a round, but it could quite easily have been the other way around. There was no ROBBERY though and I think the draw was a fair result.

Pong · Post by **Pong** » 11 Mar 2007, 18:54

It appears british commentators and judges don´t know what a blocked punch is. Most of Mbaye´s shots were blocked and Kotelnik pressed the action and landed the clean effective punches. Running away, pawing and firing of powershots to the opponents gloves, I felt like I was watching a Sven Ottke title defense, except for the powershots. Kotelnik clearly won the first round by landing the most telling combinations to the head and numerous straight right hands to the body. He clearly won the 11th and 12th unless you are Duke McKenzie, because you cannot admit Kotelnik won. Mbaye did nothing to deserve to hold onto his title, there is a fine difference between boxing and running. When Mbaye finally stood his ground he edged a couple of close rounds 9/10, before he was too tired and Kotelnik landed some beautiful combinations in the championship rounds.

Pong · Post by **Pong** » 11 Mar 2007, 18:57

Max Molyneux wrote:Universum are protesting.

Why don't they protest to Andreas that he should fight for more than a minute a round?

http://www.boxnews.com.ua/news.php?id=3245&lng=en

Maybe they protest that you should fight more than 10 seconds a round to call or remain a world champion? What are we arguing here? Kotelnik threw more punches and he landed more punches. What else is he supposed to do? Fill out the scorecards.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 11 Mar 2007, 20:29

Pong wrote:It appears british commentators and judges don´t know what a blocked punch is. Most of Mbaye´s shots were blocked and Kotelnik pressed the action and landed the clean effective punches. Running away, pawing and firing of powershots to the opponents gloves, I felt like I was watching a Sven Ottke title defense, except for the powershots. Kotelnik clearly won the first round by landing the most telling combinations to the head and numerous straight right hands to the body. He clearly won the 11th and 12th unless you are Duke McKenzie, because you cannot admit Kotelnik won. Mbaye did nothing to deserve to hold onto his title, there is a fine difference between boxing and running. When Mbaye finally stood his ground he edged a couple of close rounds 9/10, before he was too tired and Kotelnik landed some beautiful combinations in the championship rounds.

A blocked shot or a guy that moves and makes an opponent miss are non scoring (it’s just a difference in styles). Kotelnik pressed the action but didn’t do enough for it to be effective apart from the times when he decided to open up and even then only some shots got through. M’baye threw more in terms of volume and the large percentage hit the arms and gloves, as you say. But when measuring the balance of what landed and didn’t you have a real problem in definitively deciding some of those rounds. And there were a lot of rounds like that.

As for your first round analysis; there was absolutely nothing in it as both had adopted an ultra cautious approach, but you maintain that Kotelnik won it clearly, which reveals an agenda from your point view IMO. I would have no problem if Kotelnik was adjudged the winner because there were rounds where you couldn’t separate the two, but the onus is on the CHALLENGER to win the title and not on the champion for deserve the benefit of a close fight.

Pong · Post by **Pong** » 11 Mar 2007, 20:40

SticknMove wrote:
Pong wrote:It appears british commentators and judges don´t know what a blocked punch is. Most of Mbaye´s shots were blocked and Kotelnik pressed the action and landed the clean effective punches. Running away, pawing and firing of powershots to the opponents gloves, I felt like I was watching a Sven Ottke title defense, except for the powershots. Kotelnik clearly won the first round by landing the most telling combinations to the head and numerous straight right hands to the body. He clearly won the 11th and 12th unless you are Duke McKenzie, because you cannot admit Kotelnik won. Mbaye did nothing to deserve to hold onto his title, there is a fine difference between boxing and running. When Mbaye finally stood his ground he edged a couple of close rounds 9/10, before he was too tired and Kotelnik landed some beautiful combinations in the championship rounds.
A blocked shot or a guy that moves and makes an opponent miss are non scoring (it’s just a difference in styles). Kotelnik pressed the action but didn’t do enough for it to be effective apart from the times when he decided to open up and even then only some shots got through. M’baye threw more in terms of volume and the large percentage hit the arms and gloves, as you say. But when measuring the balance of what landed and didn’t you have a real problem in definitively deciding some of those rounds. And there were a lot of rounds like that.

As for your first round analysis; there was absolutely nothing in it as both had adopted an ultra cautious approach, but you maintain that Kotelnik won it clearly, which reveals an agenda from your point view IMO. I would have no problem if Kotelnik was adjudged the winner because there were rounds where you couldn’t separate the two.

Yes, he did. He landed a number of straight right hands to the body of M´Baye and the best combination to the head as well. That´s another problem with british commentators, bodypunches only count if Ricky Hatton throws them. Watch the first round and just pay attention to the straight right bodyshots by Kotelnik. Not much happened, but there is no way M´Baye won that round.

If punches to the gloves count, as long as you throw enough of them, we might as well throw defense out of the window and fight Gatti style. How can you score punches for a guy, who is in defensive counterpucher mode, throwing single blocked shots. It were alibi punches by a defensive counterpuncher unable to land any signicant clear blows for a sustained period of time, while running away.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 11 Mar 2007, 20:56

Pong wrote:
SticknMove wrote:
Pong wrote:It appears british commentators and judges don´t know what a blocked punch is. Most of Mbaye´s shots were blocked and Kotelnik pressed the action and landed the clean effective punches. Running away, pawing and firing of powershots to the opponents gloves, I felt like I was watching a Sven Ottke title defense, except for the powershots. Kotelnik clearly won the first round by landing the most telling combinations to the head and numerous straight right hands to the body. He clearly won the 11th and 12th unless you are Duke McKenzie, because you cannot admit Kotelnik won. Mbaye did nothing to deserve to hold onto his title, there is a fine difference between boxing and running. When Mbaye finally stood his ground he edged a couple of close rounds 9/10, before he was too tired and Kotelnik landed some beautiful combinations in the championship rounds.
A blocked shot or a guy that moves and makes an opponent miss are non scoring (it’s just a difference in styles). Kotelnik pressed the action but didn’t do enough for it to be effective apart from the times when he decided to open up and even then only some shots got through. M’baye threw more in terms of volume and the large percentage hit the arms and gloves, as you say. But when measuring the balance of what landed and didn’t you have a real problem in definitively deciding some of those rounds. And there were a lot of rounds like that.

As for your first round analysis; there was absolutely nothing in it as both had adopted an ultra cautious approach, but you maintain that Kotelnik won it clearly, which reveals an agenda from your point view IMO. I would have no problem if Kotelnik was adjudged the winner because there were rounds where you couldn’t separate the two.
Yes, he did. He landed a number of straight right hands to the body of M´Baye and the best combination to the head as well. That´s another problem with british commentators, bodypunches only count if Ricky Hatton throws them. Watch the first round and just pay attention to the straight right bodyshots by Kotelnik. Not much happened, but there is no way M´Baye won that round.

If punches to the gloves count, as long as you throw enough of them, we might as well throw defense out of the window and fight Gatti style. How can you score punches for a guy, who is in defensive counterpucher mode, throwing single blocked shots. It were alibi punches by a defensive counterpuncher unable to land any signicant clear blows for a sustained period of time, while running away.

The first round was a 10-10 on my card, and I doubt the certainty in which you judged it. But I haven't the benefit of relaying it.

When judging what has landed and hasn't. Do you go for the guy that is throwing volume that is being blocked and some that connect over 3 minutes as opposed to the guy who is content to press and open up in a 30 second burst. Where is the balance? For me I gave M'Baye the benefit of the sustained punching on the retreat as opposed to the pressing, blocking and sporadic opening up of Kotelnik. As I have said this was a difficult fight to judge and by no means a robbery: it could have went either way.

Pong · Post by **Pong** » 11 Mar 2007, 21:03

SticknMove wrote:
Pong wrote:
SticknMove wrote: A blocked shot or a guy that moves and makes an opponent miss are non scoring (it’s just a difference in styles). Kotelnik pressed the action but didn’t do enough for it to be effective apart from the times when he decided to open up and even then only some shots got through. M’baye threw more in terms of volume and the large percentage hit the arms and gloves, as you say. But when measuring the balance of what landed and didn’t you have a real problem in definitively deciding some of those rounds. And there were a lot of rounds like that.

As for your first round analysis; there was absolutely nothing in it as both had adopted an ultra cautious approach, but you maintain that Kotelnik won it clearly, which reveals an agenda from your point view IMO. I would have no problem if Kotelnik was adjudged the winner because there were rounds where you couldn’t separate the two.
Yes, he did. He landed a number of straight right hands to the body of M´Baye and the best combination to the head as well. That´s another problem with british commentators, bodypunches only count if Ricky Hatton throws them. Watch the first round and just pay attention to the straight right bodyshots by Kotelnik. Not much happened, but there is no way M´Baye won that round.

If punches to the gloves count, as long as you throw enough of them, we might as well throw defense out of the window and fight Gatti style. How can you score punches for a guy, who is in defensive counterpucher mode, throwing single blocked shots. It were alibi punches by a defensive counterpuncher unable to land any signicant clear blows for a sustained period of time, while running away.
The first round was a 10-10 on my card, and I doubt the certainty in which you judged it. But I haven't the benefit of relaying it.

When judging what has landed and hasn't. Do you go for the guy that is throwing volume that is being blocked and some that connect over 3 minutes as opposed to the guy who is content to press and open up in a 30 second burst. Where is the balance? For me I gave M'Baye the benefit of the sustained counterpunching as opposed to the pressing, blocking and sporadic opening up of Kotelnik. As I have said this was a difficult fight to judge and by no means a robbery: it could have went either way.

I didn´t see sustained counterpunching. Kotelnik was in control, if you cannot claim ring generalship as a counterpuncher, you don´t have a leg to stand on. I thought it was a robbery.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 11 Mar 2007, 21:15

Pong wrote:
SticknMove wrote:
Pong wrote: Yes, he did. He landed a number of straight right hands to the body of M´Baye and the best combination to the head as well. That´s another problem with british commentators, bodypunches only count if Ricky Hatton throws them. Watch the first round and just pay attention to the straight right bodyshots by Kotelnik. Not much happened, but there is no way M´Baye won that round.

If punches to the gloves count, as long as you throw enough of them, we might as well throw defense out of the window and fight Gatti style. How can you score punches for a guy, who is in defensive counterpucher mode, throwing single blocked shots. It were alibi punches by a defensive counterpuncher unable to land any signicant clear blows for a sustained period of time, while running away.
The first round was a 10-10 on my card, and I doubt the certainty in which you judged it. But I haven't the benefit of relaying it.

When judging what has landed and hasn't. Do you go for the guy that is throwing volume that is being blocked and some that connect over 3 minutes as opposed to the guy who is content to press and open up in a 30 second burst. Where is the balance? For me I gave M'Baye the benefit of the sustained counterpunching as opposed to the pressing, blocking and sporadic opening up of Kotelnik. As I have said this was a difficult fight to judge and by no means a robbery: it could have went either way.
I didn´t see sustained counterpunching. Kotelnik was in control, if you cannot claim ring generalship as a counterpuncher, you don´t have a leg to stand on. I thought it was a robbery.

I edited my post to sustained punching on the retreat because couterpunching would imply an attempt to commit in the first place, which Kotelnik didn't sustain.

But it is great to see a someone that is so definate about a close fight to call it a robbery.

Pong · Post by **Pong** » 11 Mar 2007, 22:07

SticknMove wrote:
Pong wrote:
SticknMove wrote: The first round was a 10-10 on my card, and I doubt the certainty in which you judged it. But I haven't the benefit of relaying it.

When judging what has landed and hasn't. Do you go for the guy that is throwing volume that is being blocked and some that connect over 3 minutes as opposed to the guy who is content to press and open up in a 30 second burst. Where is the balance? For me I gave M'Baye the benefit of the sustained counterpunching as opposed to the pressing, blocking and sporadic opening up of Kotelnik. As I have said this was a difficult fight to judge and by no means a robbery: it could have went either way.
I didn´t see sustained counterpunching. Kotelnik was in control, if you cannot claim ring generalship as a counterpuncher, you don´t have a leg to stand on. I thought it was a robbery.
I edited my post to sustained punching on the retreat because couterpunching would imply an attempt to commit in the first place, which Kotelnik didn't sustain.

But it is great to see a someone that is so definate about a close fight to call it a robbery.

I scored it 117-112 Kotelnik, so in my eyes it is a robbery. M´Baye didn´t win six rounds, I cannot name a single round he clearly won.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 12 Mar 2007, 04:36

viciousmaussa wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Also I don't think the judges were bought off. If they were 2 of them would have been bought for Mbaiye - unless there was allot of last miniute money on the draw.
Here's my modified opinion. I watched it again & to my shock I scored it 7-5 Kotelnik, as opposed to the previous 8-4. So if I had 1 round different, I could've had it a draw. After serious thought, Kotelnik was a bit UNLUCKY, rather than ROBBED.

Yes, you can make a case for what M'Baye did. I just think nothing he did could really deter Kotelnik who usually got him right back for his good work.

That's why I should avoid day after discussions, because I often change my mind & say something I eventually don't quite agree with, LOL.

I don't think the judges were paid off but if they could help out Mr Warren and put some insurance on Khan's future world title...If it mean giving a crucial close round to M'Baye rather than Kotelnik, I'm sure they wouldn't have scruples.

I have to say it does look a bit of a coincidence that he loses every close fight away from home. He'd win them all at home and no one would complain.

Kotelnik just hasn't done enough for me in his title shots. Against Witter he was innactive for the first 6rounds and lost the last round, an easy to calculate 7-5. This fight was so close for my money in nearly every round

Hopefully Kotelnik gets another title shot. But against who - no one wants to see Witter-Kotelnik 2 or Mbaiye-Kotelnik3 - (but if the apeals successfull it may happen), Hatton/Castillo won't fight him in a million years, there are too many above him in the IBF, as for the WBO I don't know he'd probably win.

I actually think Kotelnik was lucky to get the draw in a close fight in Mbaiyes backyard (effectively)

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 12 Mar 2007, 04:41

Pong wrote:
SticknMove wrote:
Pong wrote:It appears british commentators and judges don´t know what a blocked punch is. Most of Mbaye´s shots were blocked and Kotelnik pressed the action and landed the clean effective punches. Running away, pawing and firing of powershots to the opponents gloves, I felt like I was watching a Sven Ottke title defense, except for the powershots. Kotelnik clearly won the first round by landing the most telling combinations to the head and numerous straight right hands to the body. He clearly won the 11th and 12th unless you are Duke McKenzie, because you cannot admit Kotelnik won. Mbaye did nothing to deserve to hold onto his title, there is a fine difference between boxing and running. When Mbaye finally stood his ground he edged a couple of close rounds 9/10, before he was too tired and Kotelnik landed some beautiful combinations in the championship rounds.
A blocked shot or a guy that moves and makes an opponent miss are non scoring (it’s just a difference in styles). Kotelnik pressed the action but didn’t do enough for it to be effective apart from the times when he decided to open up and even then only some shots got through. M’baye threw more in terms of volume and the large percentage hit the arms and gloves, as you say. But when measuring the balance of what landed and didn’t you have a real problem in definitively deciding some of those rounds. And there were a lot of rounds like that.

As for your first round analysis; there was absolutely nothing in it as both had adopted an ultra cautious approach, but you maintain that Kotelnik won it clearly, which reveals an agenda from your point view IMO. I would have no problem if Kotelnik was adjudged the winner because there were rounds where you couldn’t separate the two.
Yes, he did. He landed a number of straight right hands to the body of M´Baye and the best combination to the head as well. That´s another problem with british commentators, bodypunches only count if Ricky Hatton throws them. Watch the first round and just pay attention to the straight right bodyshots by Kotelnik. Not much happened, but there is no way M´Baye won that round.

If punches to the gloves count, as long as you throw enough of them, we might as well throw defense out of the window and fight Gatti style. How can you score punches for a guy, who is in defensive counterpucher mode, throwing single blocked shots. It were alibi punches by a defensive counterpuncher unable to land any signicant clear blows for a sustained period of time, while running away.

Mbaiye landed plenty of clean shots to the head, hence Kotelniks swelled up face at the end - that doesnt happen when you only punch glove all night

I had Mbaiye WINNING THE FIRST. Mbaiye just did more and landed slightly more when Kotelnik was innactive for much of the round. I think it boils down to if you think can win a round for 30seconds of work without knocking him down, I say NO.

You making the mistake of assuming Kotelnik blocked all of Mbaiyes punches because he had a high guard. Mbaiye landed around the outside of the guard very regularly and Kotelniks defense was far from impregnible.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 12 Mar 2007, 05:29

I agree with Pong's way of seeing things. Though my card has become narrower for Kotelnik. The difference for me was Kotelnik's defense and more accurate shots.

Also I don't agree that he only fought a small portion of each round. He showed excellent ring generalship cutting M'Baye off, blocking most of M'Baye's shots, repaying M'baye, getting him when he was on the ropes. All these aspects comprise "fighting."

A lot of M'Baye's shots only half landed. But they did make a mark.

Pong · Post by **Pong** » 12 Mar 2007, 06:12

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Pong wrote:
SticknMove wrote: A blocked shot or a guy that moves and makes an opponent miss are non scoring (it’s just a difference in styles). Kotelnik pressed the action but didn’t do enough for it to be effective apart from the times when he decided to open up and even then only some shots got through. M’baye threw more in terms of volume and the large percentage hit the arms and gloves, as you say. But when measuring the balance of what landed and didn’t you have a real problem in definitively deciding some of those rounds. And there were a lot of rounds like that.

As for your first round analysis; there was absolutely nothing in it as both had adopted an ultra cautious approach, but you maintain that Kotelnik won it clearly, which reveals an agenda from your point view IMO. I would have no problem if Kotelnik was adjudged the winner because there were rounds where you couldn’t separate the two.
Yes, he did. He landed a number of straight right hands to the body of M´Baye and the best combination to the head as well. That´s another problem with british commentators, bodypunches only count if Ricky Hatton throws them. Watch the first round and just pay attention to the straight right bodyshots by Kotelnik. Not much happened, but there is no way M´Baye won that round.

If punches to the gloves count, as long as you throw enough of them, we might as well throw defense out of the window and fight Gatti style. How can you score punches for a guy, who is in defensive counterpucher mode, throwing single blocked shots. It were alibi punches by a defensive counterpuncher unable to land any signicant clear blows for a sustained period of time, while running away.
Mbaiye landed plenty of clean shots to the head, hence Kotelniks swelled up face at the end - that doesnt happen when you only punch glove all night

I had Mbaiye WINNING THE FIRST. Mbaiye just did more and landed slightly more when Kotelnik was innactive for much of the round. I think it boils down to if you think can win a round for 30seconds of work without knocking him down, I say NO.

You making the mistake of assuming Kotelnik blocked all of Mbaiyes punches because he had a high guard. Mbaiye landed around the outside of the guard very regularly and Kotelniks defense was far from impregnible.

Of course your face gets marked up, when somebody punches your own gloves into your face. That doesn´t mean you didn´t block the punch.

Round 1:

First punch landed straight right cleanly to the body by Kotelnik after 10 seconds.
Second punch landed straight right cleanly to the body by Kotelnik after 30 seconds.
Third punch landed landed a jab by M´Baye after 60 seconds.
Fourth punch landed a straight right to the body by Kotelnik after 65 seconds.
Fifth punch landed a straight right to the body by Kotelnik after 110 seconds.
Sixth punch landed a jab by M´Baye after 115 seconds.
Seventh punch landed a right to the body by Kotelnik after 132 seconds.
Eight punch landed a right hook to the body by Kotelnik after 146 seconds.
Ninth punch landed a jab by Kotelnik after 160 seconds.
Tenth punch landed a straight right to the body by Kotelnik after 170 seconds.
Eleventh punch landed by M´Baye a counter lefthook after 170 seconds.
12th and 13th punch right hands to the head by Kotelnik after 175 seconds.
14th and 15th punch, they trade jabs.

So Kotelnik controlled the action, made M´Baye miss and the punchstats read

Kotelnik 9 power punches/ 2 jabs
M´Baye 1 power punch/ 3 jabs

I´m sure M´Baye won the round.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 12 Mar 2007, 06:15

Pong wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Pong wrote: Yes, he did. He landed a number of straight right hands to the body of M´Baye and the best combination to the head as well. That´s another problem with british commentators, bodypunches only count if Ricky Hatton throws them. Watch the first round and just pay attention to the straight right bodyshots by Kotelnik. Not much happened, but there is no way M´Baye won that round.

If punches to the gloves count, as long as you throw enough of them, we might as well throw defense out of the window and fight Gatti style. How can you score punches for a guy, who is in defensive counterpucher mode, throwing single blocked shots. It were alibi punches by a defensive counterpuncher unable to land any signicant clear blows for a sustained period of time, while running away.
Mbaiye landed plenty of clean shots to the head, hence Kotelniks swelled up face at the end - that doesnt happen when you only punch glove all night

I had Mbaiye WINNING THE FIRST. Mbaiye just did more and landed slightly more when Kotelnik was innactive for much of the round. I think it boils down to if you think can win a round for 30seconds of work without knocking him down, I say NO.

You making the mistake of assuming Kotelnik blocked all of Mbaiyes punches because he had a high guard. Mbaiye landed around the outside of the guard very regularly and Kotelniks defense was far from impregnible.
Of course your face gets marked up, when somebody punches your own gloves into your face. That doesn´t mean you didn´t block the punch.

Round 1:

First punch landed straight right cleanly to the body by Kotelnik after 10 seconds.
Second punch landed straight right cleanly to the body by Kotelnik after 30 seconds.
Third punch landed landed a jab by M´Baye after 60 seconds.
Fourth punch landed a straight right to the body by Kotelnik after 65 seconds.
Fifth punch landed a straight right to the body by Kotelnik after 110 seconds.
Sixth punch landed a jab by M´Baye after 115 seconds.
Seventh punch landed a right to the body by Kotelnik after 132 seconds.
Eight punch landed a right hook to the body by Kotelnik after 146 seconds.
Ninth punch landed a jab by Kotelnik after 160 seconds.
Tenth punch landed a straight right to the body by Kotelnik after 170 seconds.
Eleventh punch landed by M´Baye a counter lefthook after 170 seconds.
12th and 13th punch right hands to the head by Kotelnik after 175 seconds.
14th and 15th punch, they trade jabs.

So Kotelnik controlled the action, made M´Baye miss and the punchstats read

Kotelnik 9 power punches/ 2 jabs
M´Baye 1 power punch/ 3 jabs

I´m sure M´Baye won the round.

Where did you get the punch stats or are they your own biased punch stats? Because I think I agree you have a clear agenda as I saw Mbaiye outland Kotelnik in that round.

Mbaiye landed plenty of scoring shots on Kotelnik every round, thats what makes it harder to score, Kotelnik wasn't Winky Wright in there.

I actually wanted Kotelnik to win, but he didn't do enough to take the belt away from the champ, I had it 7-5 Mbaitye maybe 6-6, 7-5 either way is fine with me.