M'Baye V Kotelnik

[Pong]

Mbaiye landed plenty of clean shots to the head, hence Kotelniks swelled up face at the end - that doesnt happen when you only punch glove all night

I had Mbaiye WINNING THE FIRST. Mbaiye just did more and landed slightly more when Kotelnik was innactive for much of the round. I think it boils down to if you think can win a round for 30seconds of work without knocking him down, I say NO.

You making the mistake of assuming Kotelnik blocked all of Mbaiyes punches because he had a high guard. Mbaiye landed around the outside of the guard very regularly and Kotelniks defense was far from impregnible.

Of course your face gets marked up, when somebody punches your own gloves into your face. That doesn´t mean you didn´t block the punch.

Round 1:

First punch landed straight right cleanly to the body by Kotelnik after 10 seconds.
Second punch landed straight right cleanly to the body by Kotelnik after 30 seconds.
Third punch landed landed a jab by M´Baye after 60 seconds.
Fourth punch landed a straight right to the body by Kotelnik after 65 seconds.
Fifth punch landed a straight right to the body by Kotelnik after 110 seconds.
Sixth punch landed a jab by M´Baye after 115 seconds.
Seventh punch landed a right to the body by Kotelnik after 132 seconds.
Eight punch landed a right hook to the body by Kotelnik after 146 seconds.
Ninth punch landed a jab by Kotelnik after 160 seconds.
Tenth punch landed a straight right to the body by Kotelnik after 170 seconds.
Eleventh punch landed by M´Baye a counter lefthook after 170 seconds.
12th and 13th punch right hands to the head by Kotelnik after 175 seconds.
14th and 15th punch, they trade jabs.

So Kotelnik controlled the action, made M´Baye miss and the punchstats read

Kotelnik 9 power punches/ 2 jabs
M´Baye 1 power punch/ 3 jabs

I´m sure M´Baye won the round.

Where did you get the punch stats or are they your own biased punch stats? Because I think I agree you have a clear agenda as I saw Mbaiye outland Kotelnik in that round.

Mbaiye landed plenty of scoring shots on Kotelnik every round, thats what makes it harder to score, Kotelnik wasn't Winky Wright in there.

Yes those are my punchstats. I just watched the first round again. I wasn´t afraid to watch the first round again and break it down punch by punch, because the hard evidence is there to be seen, time and time again, it doesn´t change. Kotelnik easily outlanded M´Baye in the first round and the 12th round, unless of course your name is Duke McKenzie and you are the biggest POS announcer/scorer in the world.

[Autobarn]

Kotelnik is a pressure fighter, but it seems there is an assumption that a pressure fighter has to go at his opponent like Ricky Hatton on speed. Just fvcking wang away like a maniac, I suppose that's what pressure is!

The Ukrainian is a very clever technician. His pacing, his timing, his judgement of distance are superb. M'Baye was like a ball in a pinball machine, reacting to everything, bouncing off the situation. Because of his speed he doesn't look TOO bad. But with Kotelnik, everythig is planned and executed - & it was fitting that M'Baye tired & got outworked. Tremendously efficient fighter. Whether it should've been 8-4 or 7-5, he deserved to win that fight. He also deserved to win their 1st fight.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Yes those are my punchstats. I just watched the first round again. I wasn´t afraid to watch the first round again and break it down punch by punch, because the hard evidence is there to be seen, time and time again, it doesn´t change. Kotelnik easily outlanded M´Baye in the first round and the 12th round, unless of course your name is Duke McKenzie and you are the biggest POS announcer/scorer in the world.

Well I don't see your punch stats as credible because you have an assumption that most of Mbaiyes shots hit gloves, which many did not.

I suppose you also are not counting partically blocked shots. Partially blocked means it partially hits the glove but also the head. This is a half scoring shot in my mind.

12th round I agreen I gave to Kotelnik

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Kotelnik is a pressure fighter, but it seems there is an assumption that a pressure fighter has to go at his opponent like Ricky Hatton on speed. Just fvcking wang away like a maniac, I suppose that's what pressure is!
.

Disagree that Kotelniks a pressure fighter, I think hes a solid technical counter puncher against Witter, in this fight he showed he can throw punches in bunches. Not to say he didnt apply pressure in this fight but he didn't have a high workrate of pressure to pull it off. If he had the stamina of a young Hatton (I think Hattons lost allot of stamina) he would have won convincingly (he didnt)

[Pong]

Yes those are my punchstats. I just watched the first round again. I wasn´t afraid to watch the first round again and break it down punch by punch, because the hard evidence is there to be seen, time and time again, it doesn´t change. Kotelnik easily outlanded M´Baye in the first round and the 12th round, unless of course your name is Duke McKenzie and you are the biggest POS announcer/scorer in the world.

Well I don't see your punch stats as credible because you have an assumption that most of Mbaiyes shots hit gloves, which many did not.

I suppose you also are not counting partically blocked shots. Partially blocked means it partially hits the glove but also the head. This is a half scoring shot in my mind.

Why don´t you go back and score the first round minute by minute, second by second and point out the punches M´Baye landed and Kotelnik missed, and THEN we can talk what is credible and what is not. Just the first round, do it. Ignore the commentary like they ignored Kotelniks punches and blocks. The scoring was a complete joke. Who would have thought Micky Vann could be a source of credibility and sanity.

[Autobarn]

Kotelnik is a pressure fighter, but it seems there is an assumption that a pressure fighter has to go at his opponent like Ricky Hatton on speed. Just fvcking wang away like a maniac, I suppose that's what pressure is!
.

Disagree that Kotelniks a pressure fighter, I think hes a solid technical counter puncher against Witter, in this fight he showed he can throw punches in bunches. Not to say he didnt apply pressure in this fight but he didn't have a high workrate of pressure to pull it off. If he had the stamina of a young Hatton (I think Hattons lost allot of stamina) he would have won convincingly (he didnt)

But he is. Kotelnik is usually more aggressive than the Witter fight.

I agree he's a technician who uses a lot of counter punching - he likes to do this on the front foot. In both the M'Baye fights at least, he used his feet to make M'Baye do more work and threw punches with the house fighter backing away, and caught him on the ropes. It was a lovely performance from Kotelnik yet because all his fights are close he doesn't get decisions away from home.

Tremendously efficient fighter.

With the MB rematch, BOTH MEN were more cautious this time, because they know each other's styles, and didn't want to get countered. In this way it was a typical rematch - same fight, albeit a tad more caution.

[steve689]

I scored it 115-114 M'Baye but it was close and before i totalled my card i got the impression Kotelnik had won. Kotelnik deceptively took a lot of M'Baye's shots on his gloves and blocked them, however at times in the earlier rounds it was only M'Baye throwing so he took the rounds on generalship IMO.

The fact M'Baye retained seems to overlook the fact he didn't actually win, it was remember a draw. As for a robbery no i don't think so, Maludrottu-Kelly was a robbery. A fight scored 7-5 in a fighters favour cannot be counted as a robbery if it goes the other way, it is simply close to call and a couple of rounds could be interpreted (as Adam Smith would say) down to ..."what you like best"

Thats my take Close, Kotelnik could have got it, but not a robbery.

[THEBUTCH]

I had M'baye winning.....just. Kotelnik's a bit of a squeeler. Any close decision, which this one clearly was, and him and his people cry foul.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I scored it 115-114 M'Baye but it was close and before i totalled my card i got the impression Kotelnik had won. Kotelnik deceptively took a lot of M'Baye's shots on his gloves and blocked them, however at times in the earlier rounds it was only M'Baye throwing so he took the rounds on generalship IMO.

The fact M'Baye retained seems to overlook the fact he didn't actually win, it was remember a draw. As for a robbery no i don't think so, Maludrottu-Kelly was a robbery. A fight scored 7-5 in a fighters favour cannot be counted as a robbery if it goes the other way, it is simply close to call and a couple of rounds could be interpreted (as Adam Smith would say) down to ..."what you like best"

Thats my take Close, Kotelnik could have got it, but not a robbery.

I'm confused Steve, you are telling me your own scorecard had M'baye winning, and then say you believe that Kotelnik won. A fight is judged round by round, not overall, you know that Steve. Impressions of fights often bear little relation to the facts of the fights which is why they are divided up like that.

Kotelnik is going to suffer if he continues with that style of his where he throws very little, because you don't win rounds for defense in this day and age.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Kotelnik is a pressure fighter, but it seems there is an assumption that a pressure fighter has to go at his opponent like Ricky Hatton on speed. Just fvcking wang away like a maniac, I suppose that's what pressure is!
.

Disagree that Kotelniks a pressure fighter, I think hes a solid technical counter puncher against Witter, in this fight he showed he can throw punches in bunches. Not to say he didnt apply pressure in this fight but he didn't have a high workrate of pressure to pull it off. If he had the stamina of a young Hatton (I think Hattons lost allot of stamina) he would have won convincingly (he didnt)

But he is. Kotelnik is usually more aggressive than the Witter fight.

I agree he's a technician who uses a lot of counter punching - he likes to do this on the front foot. In both the M'Baye fights at least, he used his feet to make M'Baye do more work and threw punches with the house fighter backing away, and caught him on the ropes. It was a lovely performance from Kotelnik yet because all his fights are close he doesn't get decisions away from home.

Tremendously efficient fighter.

With the MB rematch, BOTH MEN were more cautious this time, because they know each other's styles, and didn't want to get countered. In this way it was a typical rematch - same fight, albeit a tad more caution.

Did you see the Abduleev fight? Probably Kotelniks best win and 1 I missed would be interested to know how it went down.

[steve689]

I scored it 115-114 M'Baye but it was close and before i totalled my card i got the impression Kotelnik had won. Kotelnik deceptively took a lot of M'Baye's shots on his gloves and blocked them, however at times in the earlier rounds it was only M'Baye throwing so he took the rounds on generalship IMO.

The fact M'Baye retained seems to overlook the fact he didn't actually win, it was remember a draw. As for a robbery no i don't think so, Maludrottu-Kelly was a robbery. A fight scored 7-5 in a fighters favour cannot be counted as a robbery if it goes the other way, it is simply close to call and a couple of rounds could be interpreted (as Adam Smith would say) down to ..."what you like best"

Thats my take Close, Kotelnik could have got it, but not a robbery.

I'm confused Steve, you are telling me your own scorecard had M'baye winning, and then say you believe that Kotelnik won. A fight is judged round by round, not overall, you know that Steve. Impressions of fights often bear little relation to the facts of the fights which is why they are divided up like that.

I know what you are saying, i was scoring round by round but for some reason upon the conclusion of the fight i thought Kotelnik had done enough only for my scoring to contradict this as i had M'Baye winning by a point.

I suppose watching fights on TV is not ideal as commentators can sway your better judgement etc but it was just a gut instinct as Kotelnik came on strong towards the end i thought he seems to have maybe nicked it. But as said it was an absorbing fight and i scored it for M'Baye. Not a big deal just a weird way of doing things perhaps, maybe in future i just total my scores as i go along

[Autobarn]

I scored it 115-114 M'Baye but it was close and before i totalled my card i got the impression Kotelnik had won. Kotelnik deceptively took a lot of M'Baye's shots on his gloves and blocked them, however at times in the earlier rounds it was only M'Baye throwing so he took the rounds on generalship IMO.

The fact M'Baye retained seems to overlook the fact he didn't actually win, it was remember a draw. As for a robbery no i don't think so, Maludrottu-Kelly was a robbery. A fight scored 7-5 in a fighters favour cannot be counted as a robbery if it goes the other way, it is simply close to call and a couple of rounds could be interpreted (as Adam Smith would say) down to ..."what you like best"

Thats my take Close, Kotelnik could have got it, but not a robbery.

I'm confused Steve, you are telling me your own scorecard had M'baye winning, and then say you believe that Kotelnik won. A fight is judged round by round, not overall, you know that Steve. Impressions of fights often bear little relation to the facts of the fights which is why they are divided up like that.

Kotelnik is going to suffer if he continues with that style of his where he throws very little, because you don't win rounds for defense in this day and age.

What is wrong with Kotelnik's style? He's one of those fighters who's often in close fights. But it's when he's away from home that he loses split and controversial decisions. The lack of power hurts him, but he still lands enough scoring punches and makes up with skill - in bags.

Kotelnik is a terrific technician and so what if he doesn't throw 100 shots a round? He does a lot to put pressure on his opponent, by cutting off the ring and making the opponent react to every move he makes. He does a lot to break his man's rhythm and is skillful enough to manouvre him into the position where he wants him to unload. Watch Kotelnik-M'Baye 1 and 2 and tell me he barely did anything.

All M'Baye does is react to Kotelnik and throw shots from out of range that land on gloves. Kotelnik controlled that fight & landed the better punches.

it seems on these boards ppl say that Kotelnik didn't do anything when he did. Like not even giving him credit for punches that he's thrown.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

[
Kotelnik is a terrific technician and so what if he doesn't throw 100 shots a round? .

Thats the problem you either have the power or the workrate. Kotelnik doesn't have either to pull off. He also isn't Mayweather and isnt too fast.

If Kotelnik was less cautious early and fought the early rounds like the end 1s he'd be more impressive. I don't think he can be as impressive earlier against quicker opponents.

If Kotelnik worked harder in the gym to become more conditioned and faster it would move him up a level but at the moment hes a solid B Class fighter.

Imagine for a miniute if Kotelnik was in with Hatton. How would we see that going? I just think Hatton would be too much pressure and too strong and win a UD 8-4 or 9-3. You have to question - where next for the Ukranian????

[Scrap]

Itsthe first time in my life Ive agreed with Micky Van. Kotelnik made Mbaye Fight his fight, there was only one fighter comfortable with the action and the flow of movement.

[Arbachakov]

Kotelnik is definitely not a terrific technician from what i've seen of him.

He's a technically sound fighter with a very basic, one-dimensional style.

M'baye is just a hack.