LaMotta vs Sugar Ray Leonard

[granberry]

Anyone know the details of Lamotta's loss to Cecil Hudson just piror to the Billy Fox fight? Seems a strange one.

I know from a Chicago mob guy:

Jake came to Chicago and made a big noise about how he was going to beat Hudson.

During the fight he didn't fight a lick.

It turned out he had bet on Hudson.

It wasn't safe for him to come back to Chicago for a long while.

[granberry]

Ezzard... I don't agree that LaMotta had the better of Robinson in their last fight prior to the late rounds, I think Ray was in pretty clear control. I don't know how the judges had it. There may have been weight issues for LaMotta, I just wonder how much of it had to do with the fact that Ray was no longer up to 15 pounds lighter.

Sorry, the fight was close, what I meant was that La Motta really does seem to be taking over in the round just before the massacre starts. Jake unleashes quite a savage body attack as I remember. It looks as if he is taking over the fight but then it's as if he has nothing left. It seemed to take more out of him than Robinson.

Jake weighed 185 walking down the street.

When he got older it became impossible to get down to 160 without badly weakening himself.

For this fight it was close to impossible for him to lose weight down to 160.

That happens as you get older.

LaMotta ran completely out of gas from making the weight after ten rounds of this fight.

That flurry with Robinson pinned in the corner was his last gasp.

For the rest of the fight he couldn't even raise his arms up to defend himself.

And it took Robinson 4 (?) more rounds of hitting a LaMotta who was unable to defend himself before the ref stepped in--without LaMotta ever going down.

At the end of the fight Robinson was about ready to fall on his face.

LaMotta never fought again as a 160 pounder.

[Ezzard]

Ezzard... I don't agree that LaMotta had the better of Robinson in their last fight prior to the late rounds, I think Ray was in pretty clear control. I don't know how the judges had it. There may have been weight issues for LaMotta, I just wonder how much of it had to do with the fact that Ray was no longer up to 15 pounds lighter.

Sorry, the fight was close, what I meant was that La Motta really does seem to be taking over in the round just before the massacre starts. Jake unleashes quite a savage body attack as I remember. It looks as if he is taking over the fight but then it's as if he has nothing left. It seemed to take more out of him than Robinson.

Jake weighed 185 walking down the street.

When he got older it became impossible to get down to 160 without badly weakening himself.

For this fight it was close to impossible for him to lose weight down to 160.

That happens as you get older.

LaMotta ran completely out of gas from making the weight after ten rounds of this fight.

That flurry with Robinson pinned in the corner was his last gasp.

For the rest of the fight he couldn't even raise his arms up to defend himself.

And it took Robinson 4 (?) more rounds of hitting a LaMotta who was unable to defend himself before the ref stepped in--without LaMotta ever going down.

At the end of the fight Robinson was about ready to fall on his face.

LaMotta never fought again as a 160 pounder.

Would you agree that the fight was about even after 10?

[granberry]

Sorry, the fight was close, what I meant was that La Motta really does seem to be taking over in the round just before the massacre starts. Jake unleashes quite a savage body attack as I remember. It looks as if he is taking over the fight but then it's as if he has nothing left. It seemed to take more out of him than Robinson.

Jake weighed 185 walking down the street.

When he got older it became impossible to get down to 160 without badly weakening himself.

For this fight it was close to impossible for him to lose weight down to 160.

That happens as you get older.

LaMotta ran completely out of gas from making the weight after ten rounds of this fight.

That flurry with Robinson pinned in the corner was his last gasp.

For the rest of the fight he couldn't even raise his arms up to defend himself.

And it took Robinson 4 (?) more rounds of hitting a LaMotta who was unable to defend himself before the ref stepped in--without LaMotta ever going down.

At the end of the fight Robinson was about ready to fall on his face.

LaMotta never fought again as a 160 pounder.

Would you agree that the fight was about even after 10?

I haven't scored it.

But I would agree that for the last 3-4 rounds LaMotta had already used up ALL of his energy so that that he could not even lift him arms to defend himself.

Robinson lucked out catching LaMotta in that late stage of his career in their last fight.

Robinson actually lost their second fight by a kayo when he was knocked out the ring and did not get back in in 20 seconds.

And they gave Robinson a decision win in another fight with Lamotta where LaMotta knocked Robinson down and beat him clearly---
because Robinson was going into the service the next day.

LaMotta knocked Robinson down in two of their fights.

Robinson, on the other hand, never scored a knockdown against LaMotta.

The trouble Robinson had with LaMotta, who was NOT a puncher and who really had no offense other than wearing down opponents through his superior strength and condition,

makes me wonder how Robinson would have done against a middleweight who was as strong and conditioned as LaMotta and did have a devastating offense---

like Stanley Ketchel, Mickey Walker, Tony Zale.

Robinson had all kinds of trouble with strong fighters----

LaMotta,
Tiger Jones,
Artie Levine,
Gene Fullmer (who manhandled Robinson in their first fight),
very strong welterweight Marty Servo, whose fights with Robinson resulted in two highly disputed decisions for Robinson,

and even strongman lightweight Sammy Angott ---until Robinson, who was much taller, came on late in their fight.

[HomicideHenry]

Do we even need to think on this? lol

LaMotta all the way. I mean come the hell on, LaMotta beat THE best Sugar Ray Robinson there was (undefeated, was former welterweight champion, handed him his first loss) and they both fought six times in just a few years. Imagine Leonard fighting Tommy Hearns six times, Hagler six times, Duran six times...no disrespect to Ray, but he couldn't thwart LaMotta, couldn't shake him up...and Ray Leonard is no Ray Robinson.

[Elton John]

Do we even need to think on this? lol

LaMotta all the way. I mean come the hell on, LaMotta beat THE best Sugar Ray Robinson there was (undefeated, was former welterweight champion, handed him his first loss) and they both fought six times in just a few years. Imagine Leonard fighting Tommy Hearns six times, Hagler six times, Duran six times...no disrespect to Ray, but he couldn't thwart LaMotta, couldn't shake him up...and Ray Leonard is no Ray Robinson.

i agree with you there Henry but remember that Leonard does carry his own judges.

[Jaclem]

..indeed..leonard and his own judges....and if jake brought his own handcuffs at the same time, the candy ass one could not only makei it out if there alive, but even with a decision...

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

the prime 1943-1946 jake lamotta is too big for sugar ray leonard, it would resemble the mid 1940s lamotta-robinson fights except lamotta would come out slightly on top over leonard. lamotta had a 3 way combo of superhuman stamina, strength and durability that was a rare breed. it made him impossible to stop from coming in and throwing punches