The Best right cross

[granberry]

Ok granmaberry......PLEASE speak to my points regarding natural talent vs the fundamentals and how gifted athletes can sometimes thrive on less knowledge and commitment to the basics and carve out just a wee bit of a career. Even if they do annoy the hell out of you. Now Dont go crazy and make a mockery of this point. I'm not talkin about someone who does not have lick of training, rather those who don't follow the rules quite as well as others and yet have at least limited or perhaps even more success. Naz for example...weak fundamentals but hung in there even with Barrera though he lost.

I mean there is a balance, the absolute best fundamentals don't always rise to the top if they are not equaly gifted with intelligence, good eyesight, instinct and speed. All things you never speak to. Or if you do you add them all up and seem to indicate that they don't mean squat. (That hammer thing I was talkin' about)

Let's get some credibility going here, your more than a name caller, your more than a one trick pony, your more than some old cranky codger who likes to fling poo at ol' boxbuzz. Your an Icon! Your a teacher! Your your....well your granberry for god's sake.

I'm looking for something that tells me "I'm still granberry! And I don't have Alzheimers!"

I agree with what you're saying, btw, boxbuzz. Ali wasn't fundamentally perfect, but he had abilities that allowed him to get away with it. When those abilities declined, Ali declined, which is why he had close decisions with Young and Norton that he probably should have lost. But it wasn't because they were fundamentally better. I thought he lost to Shavers too, I'm not sure that Shavers would be called technically brilliant. Ali lost, or should have lost, because he wasn't the same fighter. He was older, he was starting to look older, he was getting slower, he had a lot of wear and tear, especially from Manila. You made the point that if Ali ever encountered someone as good as him who was also fundamentally good, then he might lose. I think that's a good point, and is probably true. But granberry seems to think that just anybody could have beaten Ali if they were any good... which is probably why he has to ignore those "fake" wins over Liston, Patterson and Frazier...

Was Ali technically perfect? No. But talking about how a 34 year old 20 pounds overweight Ali was exposed, in a relatively close fight that he got a decision in and that some would argue (not me) that he did win... I mean, no one believes that Young would beat the Ali of 72-75, do they? Maybe granberry, but does anyone believe Young beats even a younger 70's Ali, let alone a 60's Ali? I don't see any way. And Doug Jones... uhh... that was not a robbery, and Clay admitted himself that he only trained for a four round fight, and it looked that way as he was gassed late... those fights were close, but not necessarily because Jones and Young had "straighter" right hands...

But I found it funny that he would accept excuses for Louis that he wouldn't accept for Ali. I don't believe Louis-Charles was a definitive fight, or that Charles would beat a younger Louis, but how much less definitive was that fight than Ali-Young, really? Not much in my opinion. I don't like to be judgmental, but granberry acts a lot like a troll.

It's a tough life being an Ali apologist isn't it, IFeel.

I definitely feel for you.

Your whining about how old and out of shape Ali was whenever he got his ass kicked

makes me wonder why you don't have the same concerns for his opponents.

What kind of condition was Archie Moore in when he "fought" Ali?
Was Archie young and spry?

What kind of condition was Cleveland Williams in when he fought Ali?

Was he sewed up real good after they took out one kidney and ten feet of his small intestine?

Do you whine and cry for Cleveland Williams and his "condition" like you do for Ali?

Do you whine and cry for Floyd Patterson whose bad back wouldn't even let him stand up straight when he "fought" Ali
in their title fight where Ali showed he had no punching power at all in his very next fight after his supposed one round knockout of Liston?

What "condition" was novice Leon Spinks in when he left for the ring in his second farce with Ali?

Was he filled up with so much cocaine that he left for the ring without his protector on?
Did cornerman Georgie Benton walk out of the ring and the arena after 7 rounds because he was so impressed with Spinks' excellent condition?

You Ali salesman are not consistent in your professed concern about the "condition" of the fighters in the fights Ali had.

Why is that so?

Are you selling something

with your selectiveness ?

LOL

[I Feel Fine]

I see it took you several hours to come up with a real attempt at a response granberry. Better late than never. Still dumb arguments, though.

I've never said that Clay-Moore was an important fight for Clay, though I doubt anyone believes that Moore could have ever beaten Ali at his best. I've said to you in the past that I recognize that Williams was not what he was because of the bullet wound. I think Ali's win over Patterson was legit, but it is true that in the later rounds Patterson's back was bothering him. I've admitted to you that I do not believe that Liston was legitimately knocked out in the rematch, but I have said that the first fight was legit and any real boxing fan would know that, and that fight is a bit more important. Ali was fornicating shot when he lost to Spinks and had trained for two weeks, anyone with eye sight can see that. You can use all the pinhead bullshit you want, I'm sure you realize that Ali just two or three years earlier shuts Spinks out and probably stops him.

But going back to this stuff about Ali's opponents, there was nothing wrong with Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Quarry, Lyle, Bonvena, Ellis and Foster when Ali stopped them

Ali's opposition was better than Louis'. Ali would have clowned Braddock and Sharkey and Carnera, three of the poorer Heavyweight champions in boxing history, or those amazing 20+ loss opponents like Galento and Roper and McCoy that were part of Louis' record 25 defenses... and as for Schmeling and Walcott, both fighters who I like a lot and would consider myself a fan of, they weren't Frazier and Foreman... and you can talk all the trash you want about Ali going down once in three fights against Frazier, Louis was down three times in two fights against Walcott...

You don't need a salesman to see that Ali was the greatest Heavyweight champion of all time.

[granberry]

Ali's opposition was better than Louis'. Ali would have clowned Braddock and Sharkey and Carnera, three of the poorer Heavyweight champions in boxing history

Clueless Ali salesman IFeelLikeaFairy shows his total ignorance of the most basic techniques of boxing.

Ali ATE left jabs.

He had no defense against a left jab.

Doug Jones hit Ali at will with his top level professional jab.

Jimmy Young crucified Ali with his jab all night long.
He used Ali's head as a punching bag with his left jab. I was sitting right there.

Even 7-fight novice Leon Spinks hit Ali all night long with his rudimentary jab--as instructed by trainer Georgie Benton, who knew Ali's flaws.

Jones and Jimmy Young, the best technicians Ali fought, hit Ali easily with their right hands.

Ali industry talking point regurgitator IFeel nails himself as clueless with the inane comments he spits at Braddock and Sharkey.

Both Braddock (against Baer) and Sharkey (against Schmeling) won the heavyweight title with a classic exhibition of jabbing.

They would be exactly the type of fighter Ali would not want to fight.

As for Carnera , Ali couldn't have hurt him.

Ali couldn't punch hard enough to bother Doug jones, who was a head shorter than Ali and 25 pounds lighter than Ali.

Ali never scored a knockdown against 185 pound Henry Cooper.
Zora Folley knocked out Cooper for a ten count in the second round with a single right hand.
An old Patterson knocked Cooper out for a ten count.

Ali showed he had no punch against Patterson in the very fight after he supposedly "knocked out " Liston in the first round.

Ali showed he had no punch against Terrell.

Ali showed he had no punch against Norton in 39 rounds !

Carnera had a great chin.

He showed that against two of the greatest hitters in boxing history, Baer and Louis.

Neither could knock him out, or even keep him down for a count longer than one. Both fights were stopped with Carnera on his feet.

Ali, with his pitty pat punching power, would have been a joke to Carnera.

[I Feel Fine]

Yet Ali somehow managed to beat Sonny Liston, who would probably knock Sharkey out with his jab...

Ali would win no less than 12 rounds against Braddock and Sharkey. I thought even the biggest Ali hater could never say that Carnera could beat Ali, but I was apparently wrong there.

I notice how you tend to focus almost exclusively on Ali's fights that took place from 1962-1963 and from 1976-1978. All Ali haters do this, because those are the years where Ali was developing or when he was a shell of his former self. It would be like criticizing Henry Armstrong for his first 20-30 fights and for everything that happened after he lost to Zivic, and ignoring everything inbetween. Henry Cooper, Doug Jones, Jimmy Young, Leon Spinks... those are the fights you want to watch if you're an Ali hater. Not because they're definitive fights, Ali was young or old in those fights. He wasn't in great shape for Jones and Young, which is his fault, of course, but can hardly be used as a way to judge him when he is at his best. But if you talk enough about those fights, people who haven't seen much of Ali's career will read it and then can come to the conclusion that Ali is overrated because he had some close fights, while on the other hand those same people will paint a rosey picture of Joe Louis and he can be built up to be the GOAT, though he himself was KO'd in his formative years and was schooled and brutalized in his aging years. They set one set of rules for Ali, and another set of rules for Louis.

Hence we can't judge Louis badly for his performance against Charles because he was old, he was coming off a layoff, the government was treating him unfairly. But we cannot say those same things for Ali, according to these Ali-hater rules; the marquess of granberry rules, so to speak.

You want to pick on every little thing in Ali's career? Joe Louis was knocked down by James Braddock. That's embarrassing. Louis was knocked through the ropes by Buddy Baer, only one of two reigning Heavyweight champions ever to get knocked through the ropes. Louis was knocked out by Schmeling, Ali was never counted out in a fight. Louis was stunned by 20+ loss Tony Galento in the first round, and knocked down in the third... Galento, who was shorter than James Toney, and just as fat. Louis was knocked down three times in two fights by Walcott. Louis was schooled by a still Light Heavyweight in Billy Conn. Conn's official weight was listed at 174 1/2, and even that weight was exaggerated by two pounds. Conn was not an ex-Light Heavyweight, he was a Light Heavyweight. And Conn, who had little power even against other Light Heavyweights, hurt Louis badly with a left hook. Louis also had his tough fight with Godoy. He went 15 with Tommy Farr, who I promise you was no Ken Norton.

As for thie question about power; I'd hate to break it to you, but Ali wouldn't need power to beat Joe Louis, and Ali would certainly hit hard enough to make Joe feel it. Louis sure felt it when former Light Heavyweight Ezzard Charles had him out on his feet in the late rounds of their fight. Charles was supposedly tentative about following up on hurt opponents, because Charles had killed a man earlier in his career... this isn't uncommon, Ray Robinson and Emile Griffith said that they went through the same thing. But perhaps if Charles had followed up on it he might have KO's Louis. Marciano sure did, sending Louis through the ropes, Earnie Shavers didn't put Ali through the ropes and Shavers hit at least as hard as Marciano and Ali was pretty old and shot in that fight, probably more shot than Louis was against Rocky.

You want to talk about Ali being vulnerable to right hands... Louis was knocked down seven f-cking times in his career by right hands...

And going back to Louis' overrated 25 defense record, only four of Louis' opponents had less than five losses in those 25 title defenses. Only four. Four of them had over 20 losses. Many of them had over 10. Of Ali's 19 defenses, only five of his opponents had over five losses. Complete opposites in that regard, yet Ali's 19 defenses somehow mean less because they weren't consecutive and because Louis had more... and people have the nerve to talk about Richard Dunn: Dunn was as good as half of Louis' f-cking title challengers. Maybe if we give Ali another 6 Richard Dunn's he gets to 25 defenses...

Ali and Louis fought more Hall of Famers than any other fighter, besides Ray Robinson. But looking at those Hall of Famers, its no contest.

Liston would beat Waclott
Frazier would beat Schmeling
Foreman would beat Baer
Patterson would beat Braddock
Norton would beat Carnera
Moore would beat John Henry Lewis
I would say Foster would beat Conn, but some might dispute that... funny how Conn is a big test for Louis, while Foster was little more than an advanced sparring session for Ali... the difference in power as Light Heavyweights between Foster and Conn is not even close, Conn had no power as a Light Heavyweight, Foster was arguably the biggest puncher ever at Light Heavyweight... yet Foster's punches, though causing a rare cut on Ali, did absolutely nothing to Ali, while Conn freaking almost put Louis' down... Ali put Foster down seven times, Louis needed a late rally to stop Conn... its ridiculous the double standard that Conn is a great win for Louis, and Foster isn't for Ali... or Spinks is for Tyson, or Moore is for Marciano...

And going back to this stuff about how Ali would do against Louis' opponents, which is nonsense, everyone knows Ali would piss on Louis' opponents... would Louis get passed Liston? A majority of the people on this board didn't think so in that Heavyweight Tournament thread. Would Louis get passed Foreman? Maybe Frazier, if Frazier survives the early rounds? Louis would have a lot more losses than Ali did if Joe was fighting Ali's opposition.

Ali fought on a higher level against a higher level of opposition.

Anyway, I've been a bit hard on Louis in this post. I do like Louis a lot, and count him as a top 10 P4P fighter, and #2 all time at Heavyweight. I'm just judging Louis here by the standards that granberry judges Ali. I think the difference between me and dickless here is that while I may not think the world of Louis' opposition, I do respect him and think of him as one of the greatest fighters of all time. I don't mind if someone doesn't like Ali and I don't mind if someone ranks Louis over him, what I don't like is for someone to pretend that Ali was somehow not a great fighter, and what I don't like is that granberry doesn't have any respect for Ali... I think that's pretty shitty.

Granberry's predicted response to this post...

Doug Jones... Doug Jones... Jones... right hand... Norton... Doug Jones... shill...

[BoxBuzz]

Ali's opposition was better than Louis'. Ali would have clowned Braddock and Sharkey and Carnera, three of the poorer Heavyweight champions in boxing history

Clueless Ali salesman IFeelLikeaFairy shows his total ignorance of the most basic techniques of boxing.

Ali ATE left jabs.

He had no defense against a left jab.

Doug Jones hit Ali at will with his top level professional jab.

Jimmy Young crucified Ali with his jab all night long.
He used Ali's head as a punching bag with his left jab. I was sitting right there.

Even 7-fight novice Leon Spinks hit Ali all night long with his rudimentary jab--as instructed by trainer Georgie Benton, who knew Ali's flaws.

Jones and Jimmy Young, the best technicians Ali fought, hit Ali easily with their right hands.

Ali industry talking point regurgitator IFeel nails himself as clueless with the inane comments he spits at Braddock and Sharkey.

Both Braddock (against Baer) and Sharkey (against Schmeling) won the heavyweight title with a classic exhibition of jabbing.

They would be exactly the type of fighter Ali would not want to fight.

As for Carnera , Ali couldn't have hurt him.

Ali couldn't punch hard enough to bother Doug jones, who was a head shorter than Ali and 25 pounds lighter than Ali.

Ali never scored a knockdown against 185 pound Henry Cooper.
Zora Folley knocked out Cooper for a ten count in the second round with a single right hand.
An old Patterson knocked Cooper out for a ten count.

Ali showed he had no punch against Patterson in the very fight after he supposedly "knocked out " Liston in the first round.

Ali showed he had no punch against Terrell.

Ali showed he had no punch against Norton in 39 rounds !

Carnera had a great chin.

He showed that against two of the greatest hitters in boxing history, Baer and Louis.

Neither could knock him out, or even keep him down for a count longer than one. Both fights were stopped with Carnera on his feet.

Ali, with his pitty pat punching power, would have been a joke to Carnera.

Hey GranBerry Manilow..... I think even you know that Ali had no intention of KO'ing Terrell. 15 rounds of merciless beatings what was what that plan called for . Executed quite well even you would have to agree with that. Terrel was bothered by that pesky floating bee for 15 wonderfully entertaining and sadistic rounds. Were you there? Did you see how Ernie was being humiliated round after round? Very little to complain about in that bit of artistry even for the fundamentalist extremist that is the grannster. Yep he turned in a pretty darn good performance that day. I know you would agree. You old closet Ali worhshipper you.

[Collins2000]

I Feel Fine, you are wasting your time using logic with Crankberry The Troll.

[BoxBuzz]

That great chin of Carnera's he definatly showed "chin" to Baer.....How many time did Max yell "Timber"? I'm thinking having a good chin has something to do with falling over. Which Carnera did manage to do quite a few times that day. I suppose I see the connection. I mean he did get up quite a few times........But that falling down part still has me concerned.

[I Feel Fine]

You're right collins, but I figured its good to have both sides of a story. Its not just granberry, a lot of people set the bar way high for Ali and way low for Louis, and its not fair.

lol boxbuzz

[granberry]

Carnera was a joke. He was knocked out by pitty-patting puncher Luigi Musina.

decagon is a joke.

[granberry]

Ali's opposition was better than Louis'. Ali would have clowned Braddock and Sharkey and Carnera, three of the poorer Heavyweight champions in boxing history

Clueless Ali salesman IFeelLikeaFairy shows his total ignorance of the most basic techniques of boxing.

Ali ATE left jabs.

He had no defense against a left jab.

Doug Jones hit Ali at will with his top level professional jab.

Jimmy Young crucified Ali with his jab all night long.
He used Ali's head as a punching bag with his left jab. I was sitting right there.

Even 7-fight novice Leon Spinks hit Ali all night long with his rudimentary jab--as instructed by trainer Georgie Benton, who knew Ali's flaws.

Jones and Jimmy Young, the best technicians Ali fought, hit Ali easily with their right hands.

Ali industry talking point regurgitator IFeel nails himself as clueless with the inane comments he spits at Braddock and Sharkey.

Both Braddock (against Baer) and Sharkey (against Schmeling) won the heavyweight title with a classic exhibition of jabbing.

They would be exactly the type of fighter Ali would not want to fight.

As for Carnera , Ali couldn't have hurt him.

Ali couldn't punch hard enough to bother Doug jones, who was a head shorter than Ali and 25 pounds lighter than Ali.

Ali never scored a knockdown against 185 pound Henry Cooper.
Zora Folley knocked out Cooper for a ten count in the second round with a single right hand.
An old Patterson knocked Cooper out for a ten count.

Ali showed he had no punch against Patterson in the very fight after he supposedly "knocked out " Liston in the first round.

Ali showed he had no punch against Terrell.

Ali showed he had no punch against Norton in 39 rounds !

Carnera had a great chin.

He showed that against two of the greatest hitters in boxing history, Baer and Louis.

Neither could knock him out, or even keep him down for a count longer than one. Both fights were stopped with Carnera on his feet.

Ali, with his pitty pat punching power, would have been a joke to Carnera.

Hey GranBerry Manilow..... I think even you know that Ali had no intention of KO'ing Terrell. 15 rounds of merciless beatings what was what that plan called for . Executed quite well even you would have to agree with that. Terrel was bothered by that pesky floating bee for 15 wonderfully entertaining and sadistic rounds. Were you there? Did you see how Ernie was being humiliated round after round? Very little to complain about in that bit of artistry even for the fundamentalist extremist that is the grannster. Yep he turned in a pretty darn good performance that day. I know you would agree. You old closet Ali worhshipper you.

Joe Louis said as he watched the Ali-Terrell fight, "Clay can't punch."

But what did Joe Louis know about punching power.

IFeelLikeaFairy knows the subject of punching power.

Joe Louis doesn't.

LOL

[granberry]

Poor I Feel Fine

Yet Ali somehow managed to beat Sonny Liston, who would probably knock Sharkey out with his jab...

Nobody let FeelFine in on the fact that Ali's "fights" with Liston were fixed.

The two fights Ali had just before fighting Liston were not fixed. That's why he looked like sh*t against Doug Jones and Henry Cooper.

He wasn't in great shape for Jones and Young,

He wasn't in great shape AFTER those fights, because he got his ass kicked.

Ali was never counted out in a fight.

He quit like a dog against Holmes.

He wanted to quit against Liston.

He certainly was stopped by 185 Henry Cooper.
If the rules of boxing had been enforced.

No question that Ali was a "human punching bag."

His condition today attests to that.

But perhaps if Charles had followed up on it he might have KO's Louis. Marciano sure did, sending Louis through the ropes.

Yes, Joe louis was in his prime against Charles and Marciano.


Ali put Foster down seven times,

Joe Frazier almost killed Bob Foster with a single left hook, knocking him out in the second round.

Ali showed he had no punch against Foster.
He outweighed Foster by over 40 pounds, and had to wait for Foster to get tired from the weight advantage.

That fight showed Ali's "punching power' was a joke.

[Collins2000]

Carnera was a joke. He was knocked out by pitty-patting puncher Luigi Musina.

decagon is a joke.

That is common knowldge, Crankberry. Stop trying to ingratiate yourself with the real fans here.

[Collins2000]

Old and bitter Crankberry proves once again he knows nothing at all about the mechanics of boxing.

Crankberry, tell us all again how a southpaw would punch himself in the face if he threw a left hook.

[BoxBuzz]

po' ol' grabassberry still don't get that Ali was not there to "Stop" Terrell.....No way was he going to anesthisize his opponent on that day. That would have stopped the humiliation and the beating and the pain.....A KO was never in the plan. In fact I think Ali was ready to go 30 rounds that day....but no merciful KO.....no sir....that would be far to kind.

You see on that day Ali wanted to get ol' Ernie "Hooked on Phonics". He seemed to be suffering from a speech impediment and Ali thankfully was there to help.

[I Feel Fine]

Poor I Feel Fine

Yet Ali somehow managed to beat Sonny Liston, who would probably knock Sharkey out with his jab...

Nobody let FeelFine in on the fact that Ali's "fights" with Liston were fixed.

The two fights Ali had just before fighting Liston were not fixed. That's why he looked like sh*t against Doug Jones and Henry Cooper.

He wasn't in great shape for Jones and Young,

He wasn't in great shape AFTER those fights, because he got his ass kicked.

Ali was never counted out in a fight.

He quit like a dog against Holmes.

He wanted to quit against Liston.

He certainly was stopped by 185 Henry Cooper.
If the rules of boxing had been enforced.

No question that Ali was a "human punching bag."

His condition today attests to that.

But perhaps if Charles had followed up on it he might have KO's Louis. Marciano sure did, sending Louis through the ropes.

Yes, Joe louis was in his prime against Charles and Marciano.


Ali put Foster down seven times,

Joe Frazier almost killed Bob Foster with a single left hook, knocking him out in the second round.

Ali showed he had no punch against Foster.
He outweighed Foster by over 40 pounds, and had to wait for Foster to get tired from the weight advantage.

That fight showed Ali's "punching power' was a joke.

Lame attempt at an answer, not worth addressing.

[granberry]

Poor I Feel Fine

Yet Ali somehow managed to beat Sonny Liston, who would probably knock Sharkey out with his jab...

Nobody let FeelFine in on the fact that Ali's "fights" with Liston were fixed.

The two fights Ali had just before fighting Liston were not fixed. That's why he looked like sh*t against Doug Jones and Henry Cooper.

He wasn't in great shape for Jones and Young,

He wasn't in great shape AFTER those fights, because he got his ass kicked.

Ali was never counted out in a fight.

He quit like a dog against Holmes.

He wanted to quit against Liston.

He certainly was stopped by 185 Henry Cooper.
If the rules of boxing had been enforced.

No question that Ali was a "human punching bag."

His condition today attests to that.

But perhaps if Charles had followed up on it he might have KO's Louis. Marciano sure did, sending Louis through the ropes.

Yes, Joe louis was in his prime against Charles and Marciano.


Ali put Foster down seven times,

Joe Frazier almost killed Bob Foster with a single left hook, knocking him out in the second round.

Ali showed he had no punch against Foster.
He outweighed Foster by over 40 pounds, and had to wait for Foster to get tired from the weight advantage.

That fight showed Ali's "punching power' was a joke.

Lame attempt at an answer, not worth addressing.

Why does everything IFeel posts read like a retread of Thomas Hauser or Bert Sugar?

[Knucklez]

Poor I Feel Fine

Yet Ali somehow managed to beat Sonny Liston, who would probably knock Sharkey out with his jab...

Nobody let FeelFine in on the fact that Ali's "fights" with Liston were fixed.

The two fights Ali had just before fighting Liston were not fixed. That's why he looked like sh*t against Doug Jones and Henry Cooper.

He wasn't in great shape for Jones and Young,

He wasn't in great shape AFTER those fights, because he got his ass kicked.

Ali was never counted out in a fight.

He quit like a dog against Holmes.

He wanted to quit against Liston.

He certainly was stopped by 185 Henry Cooper.
If the rules of boxing had been enforced.

No question that Ali was a "human punching bag."

His condition today attests to that.

But perhaps if Charles had followed up on it he might have KO's Louis. Marciano sure did, sending Louis through the ropes.

Yes, Joe louis was in his prime against Charles and Marciano.


Ali put Foster down seven times,

Joe Frazier almost killed Bob Foster with a single left hook, knocking him out in the second round.

Ali showed he had no punch against Foster.
He outweighed Foster by over 40 pounds, and had to wait for Foster to get tired from the weight advantage.

That fight showed Ali's "punching power' was a joke.

Lame attempt at an answer, not worth addressing.

Why does everything IFeel posts read like a retread of Thomas Hauser or Bert Sugar?

Gran, how come you know so little about boxing?

[BoxBuzz]

Granberry tell us about the rounds that Terrel won that night. The rounds where he dominated Ali. Oh and you might want to mention what condition Joe Louis's vision capability was that night. Was his eyesight still 20/20 on that February evening in Houston? He did see enough to know that he was disgusted that anyone would humiliate someone the way Ali did to Ernie. Joe was a pretty soft hearted guy and it bothered him how cruel Ali was to Ernie....so he threw in his comment in defense of Ernie Terrell. It was about the only defense ol' Ernie had.

Were you there? Did you see how foolish Ali made Ernie look? Some say it was Ali's worst moment as a person. But as a fighter...not bad....not bad at all.

One other thing..... Ernie could sing, better than Joe or Ali. I worked with him at the Fountainbleau in Miami Where he was singing with his act called, Ernie Terrell and the Heavyweights. (Honestly) But he was never the same fighter after that night.

Check this out....you NEVER see HW's move like this in the first round these days much less the 12th...or in this case the 14th and 15th. He could have gone 30 rounds if he needed to. Whatch you got to say that granberryboy? Huh? No mumbling speak clearly cuz I want to hear what you got say about this amazing athlete.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEXY9esJ ... ed&search=

[Thunder and Lightning]

Muhammed Ali wasn't that powerfull puncher but that isn't what he is famous forhis speed, accuracy and abbility to take a punch (if somebody say Henry Cooper i say George Foreman, Clevland Williams, Earnie Shavers among others and that is that) that is what made him in my opinion the greatest HW boxer of alltime

Ingemar Johanssons right cross is one of the most powerfull i have ever seen just to get back to the maintopic.

[Sweet P]

Id say P4P Tszyu has a huge right hand, Id have to go with Hearns all time as he had genuine 1 punch power in his right hand.

[Controversial]

Rocky Marciano's right cross was a true KO punch...

"SUZY Q" is without a doubt, one of the greatest punches a boxer's ever had in HISTORY!!!!!

Hmm not sure on that one. Yes Marciano had a good right hand but how many fighters did he finish with one punch, Walcott springs to mind but thats about it. Marciano clubbed many fighters to defeat, not that many clean one punch right hand ko's to qulaify him as having the best in history !!! The second Walcott fight was an uppercut, Moore, Cockell and Charles were battered to defeat, not clean one punch ko's.

IMO Tommy Hearns right hand was a true one punch fight finisher. His one punch ko of Duran was awesome. Duran coming off a points defeat to Hagler, yet gets dropped with one right hand in the 1st then he is almost decapitated in the second.......thats a true world class puncher.

[markl]

The rock threw more of an overhand right then a right cross anyway.

[Jaclem]

...he also threw a good right uppercut...like when don cockel was on the canvas taking a count...

[Controversial]

...he also threw a good right uppercut...like when don cockel was on the canvas taking a count...

...he also threw a good short left hook...like when Walcott was on his knee taking a count...

[Ambling Alp]

Walcott was going down but his knee hadn't touched the ground yet. It was a perfectly legal punch from Marciano.