JUNIOR WITTER

1southpaw · Post by **1southpaw** » 07 Sep 2007, 09:34

DavidPayne wrote:As one of my daughters is called Vivienne, I can confirm it is.

But so was Viv Richards and Viv Anderson.

and vivienne out of the young ones

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 07 Sep 2007, 09:38

DavidPayne wrote:As one of my daughters is called Vivienne, I can confirm it is.

But so was Viv Richards and Viv Anderson.

Must be a West Indies thing, his full name is:

Sir Isaac Vivian Alexander Richards

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 07 Sep 2007, 09:39

anyone excited about this fight?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Sep 2007, 09:40

1southpaw wrote:
DavidPayne wrote:As one of my daughters is called Vivienne, I can confirm it is.

But so was Viv Richards and Viv Anderson.
and vivienne out of the young ones

And Vivian Harris.....

Oh shit.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 07 Sep 2007, 09:41

Autobarn wrote:anyone excited about this fight?

A genuine 50-50 between 2 genuine top3 140lbers who can both bang? Yes I am, are you not?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Sep 2007, 09:43

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Autobarn wrote:anyone excited about this fight?
A genuine 50-50 between 2 genuine top3 140lbers who can both bang? Yes I am, are you not?

top 3 now? Harris is going up and up all the time.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Sep 2007, 09:44

Not terribly to be honest, but that's mainly because of Junior's prior performances.

I think this could be different though, I doubt Harris is just going to stand there doing eff all like Corley did when Junior started all that bodypopping and stuff. Nice long punches from range will hopefully turn this into a proper fight.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 07 Sep 2007, 09:46

stujones wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Autobarn wrote:anyone excited about this fight?
A genuine 50-50 between 2 genuine top3 140lbers who can both bang? Yes I am, are you not?
top 3 now? Harris is going up and up all the time.

Who do you rank above him? Malignaggi who can't break an egg or Castillo who got broke down in 4 after been lucky to get an SD against a novice? Torres was supposed to have been a given a gift in his fight before Holt and his win against the chinny Holt is full of controversy to say the least.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 07 Sep 2007, 10:09

Autobarn wrote:anyone excited about this fight?

Yes. 8)

Witter will be ninja like against Harris.

He Is 2nd to only Calzaghe.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 07 Sep 2007, 10:23

I'm looking forward to this fight. Witter is a joy to watch from an artistic point of view and he can hit damn hard. I hope Witter wins by KO :-)

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 07 Sep 2007, 10:23

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Autobarn wrote:anyone excited about this fight?
A genuine 50-50 between 2 genuine top3 140lbers who can both bang? Yes I am, are you not?

I probably will be around 10 pm

HairyBoxe24 · Post by **HairyBoxe24** » 07 Sep 2007, 10:30

Very much so looking forward to this fight! I bet on Witter but am kind of doubting it now. at 1/2 atleast, only done it for interest really though along with loads of others,

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Sep 2007, 10:39

Does it really matter than Malignaggi cannot punch? Harris runs out of gas at the half way point in most of his fights... Hatton has a poor defense and cuts - every fighter has a weakness. Cotto aside, Malignaggi has hardly lost a round in any of his fights - vs Pretty good fighters and he gave Cotto possibly the toughest of his career.

If Malignaggi is so slick that he can overcome his one major area of weakness, then that is his good fortune.

Castillo lucky vs Ngoudjo (whose a novice?) - well the 28 year old novice was the WBC International champion with wins over the likes of Augustus, John Brown etc. But anyway, not so sure he was lucky - most thought he won a close decision.

Torres? Gift decision vs Arnoutis? Not so sure about that - close fight could have gone either way. Yes he was behind against the "chinny" Holt (when did he become chinny, not when you were saying Torres would lose anyway) - haven't seen the fight yet to judge the controvesy... but not even Holt is denying that he was out of it at the end.

All I am stating is that as much of a "geniune" claim could be made for these three as for the non champion Harris - and we shouldn't forget the Maussa loss so easily.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 07 Sep 2007, 10:44

...called Maurice.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Sep 2007, 10:46

Terry D wrote:Paulie is a skilled boxer and I like them but to be honest he veers too close to dull for me. If you have to look backwards over your own shoulder to see the next punch then you are doing something wrong. His hair "style" and sense of dress is the most entertaining thing about him.

He often looks like a transsexual hair stylist.

Oh yes, often wonder "is he?"

I agree he is dull, but doesn't mean his ranking should be dimished - take the recognised (by most) #2 in the devision.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 07 Sep 2007, 10:52

stujones wrote:Does it really matter than Malignaggi cannot punch? Harris runs out of gas at the half way point in most of his fights... Hatton has a poor defense and cuts - every fighter has a weakness. Cotto aside, Malignaggi has hardly lost a round in any of his fights - vs Pretty good fighters and he gave Cotto possibly the toughest of his career.

If Malignaggi is so slick that he can overcome his one major area of weakness, then that is his good fortune.

Castillo lucky vs Ngoudjo (whose a novice?) - well the 28 year old novice was the WBC International champion with wins over the likes of Augustus, John Brown etc. But anyway, not so sure he was lucky - most thought he won a close decision.

Torres? Gift decision vs Arnoutis? Not so sure about that - close fight could have gone either way. Yes he was behind against the "chinny" Holt (when did he become chinny, not when you were saying Torres would lose anyway) - haven't seen the fight yet to judge the controvesy... but not even Holt is denying that he was out of it at the end.

All I am stating is that as much of a "geniune" claim could be made for these three as for the non champion Harris - and we shouldn't forget the Maussa loss so easily.

Malignaggi is a top4 fighter, if your going to rate 1 fighter above Harris/Witter it should be him BUT he hasn't proved enough. And if your going to critisize Harris for his loss you have to look at Malignaggi too who lost in 2006. Yes it was Cotto but a weight drained 1 that Toress and Corley had out on his feet.

Castillo is DONE, I had him losing to to Herman and 1 of the judges did. When was the last time he had an impressive win? As for Herman he only got a SD in his last fight against Bailey. So at 140 Castillo and Herman are barely top 10.

Holt has always been chinny, go and look for his first loss on youtube if you want evidense. Regardless Holt and Arnoutis have claims to be robbed against Torres, which puts question marks over him.

Torres also went the full 12 rounds with Morua who Witter put away in 9 so that doesn't look like such a bad performance in retrospect

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Sep 2007, 11:06

You should rate Carlos Maussa ahead of Harris... its still an unavenged defeat.

Okay though, you could say Maussa lost badly to Garnacia. However, if your looking at controvesies and not just the record books - many people have considered Garnacia to have beating Lazcano wider than Harris did. Though Garnacia officially lost and Harris got the nod.

But then Garnacia got whalloped by a prospect called Tim Bradley... maybe then he has claims.

Malignaggi might not have done major things, but his performance over a prepared Ndou was far and away better than Witter's over an under prepared Ndou.

I'm not saying your not wrong, but its not the set in stone that Harris is #3 - yes, he has a claim but your original post sounded like any other claim to the #3 spot is preposterous and I don't believe that.

For me its very hard to give someone the #3 spot after the Maussa loss (and the manner of the defeat) and his only follow up wins of note were a razor tight decision vs Lazcano and a win over an over weight, over the hill, Johnston. For me, Malignaggi's recent record is better and Castillo's previous history is better than Harris pre Maussa.

Personally, I have him at #5 - Hatton, Witter, Malignaggi, Castillo, Harris.... Not saying I am right and I am NOT saying it is fact that he has to be there. Just saying its all opinions, and my opinion is that he isn't a current #3 fighter.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 07 Sep 2007, 11:11

N'Dou wasn't under-prepared for Witter.

Thats plain not true.

He's a gym fighter, always there, had decent sparring ahead of the fight, knew he was fighting Witter and was motivated to win.

He was also int he US well ahead of the bout to acclimatise.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Sep 2007, 11:16

DavidPayne wrote:N'Dou wasn't under-prepared for Witter.

Thats plain not true.

He's a gym fighter, always there, had decent sparring ahead of the fight, knew he was fighting Witter and was motivated to win.

He was also int he US well ahead of the bout to acclimatise.

Fair call then, I know you have had some dealings with Ndou. I just assummed on the "is it Ndou", "is it not" that he might known he was fighting Witter. When did he know?

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 07 Sep 2007, 11:26

stujones wrote:You should rate Carlos Maussa ahead of Harris... its still an unavenged defeat.

Okay though, you could say Maussa lost badly to Garnacia. However, if your looking at controvesies and not just the record books - many people have considered Garnacia to have beating Lazcano wider than Harris did. Though Garnacia officially lost and Harris got the nod.

But then Garnacia got whalloped by a prospect called Tim Bradley... maybe then he has claims.

Malignaggi might not have done major things, but his performance over a prepared Ndou was far and away better than Witter's over an under prepared Ndou.

I'm not saying your not wrong, but its not the set in stone that Harris is #3 - yes, he has a claim but your original post sounded like any other claim to the #3 spot is preposterous and I don't believe that.

For me its very hard to give someone the #3 spot after the Maussa loss (and the manner of the defeat) and his only follow up wins of note were a razor tight decision vs Lazcano and a win over an over weight, over the hill, Johnston. For me, Malignaggi's recent record is better and Castillo's previous history is better than Harris pre Maussa.

Personally, I have him at #5 - Hatton, Witter, Malignaggi, Castillo, Harris.... Not saying I am right and I am NOT saying it is fact that he has to be there. Just saying its all opinions, and my opinion is that he isn't a current #3 fighter.

Ratings are definately all opinions. At the end of the day the winner of this fight is no2 behind Hatton (or no1 if Hatton stays at 147) and deserves to be considered so.

Obviously Maussa isn't really top10 material, he lost handily to Morua who Witter stopped and Torres beat on points.

Personally I see Harris Maussa loss as a fluke, he supposedly overtrained and weighed 135 come fight night - which may or may not be true - it seems hard to believe

Castillo needs a big win at 140 if he wants to be ranked highly because so far hes looked like an old man who can't handle young 140lbers and I think most the top 10 may have the beating of him now.

I rate Urango over Castillo and defended Hatton after the Urango showing saying Castillo hasn't got near Urangos firepower or strength and I was proved right on that. Urango would KO Castillo, Urangos horribly sluggish if you can outbox him but if you exchange with him your going to get hurt and he hurt Hatton to the body and put him on the backfoot - that takes some doing

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 07 Sep 2007, 12:00

stujones wrote:
DavidPayne wrote:N'Dou wasn't under-prepared for Witter.

Thats plain not true.

He's a gym fighter, always there, had decent sparring ahead of the fight, knew he was fighting Witter and was motivated to win.

He was also int he US well ahead of the bout to acclimatise.
Fair call then, I know you have had some dealings with Ndou. I just assummed on the "is it Ndou", "is it not" that he might known he was fighting Witter. When did he know?

I forget to be honest Stu. I seem to think a month, but I could be wrong, in which case your point wouild hold more water than I suggest.