The Calzaghe-Hopkins - No! Thread

chesh · Post by **chesh** » 07 Nov 2007, 12:02

J wrote:
pundit wrote:This is a bit like Lennox vs. Tyson. Lennox had to fight Tyson, otherwise some jerks would always have said he had ducked Mighty Mike. Although Tyson wasn't competitive any more by the time they fought. And of course it was a nice payday for LL.
can see similarities and such but hopkins is far more live than tyson was.
Write him off at your peril.

Hopkins is currently ranked number 1 at 175 and about number 5 P4P. Despite his ugly, spoiling style, it would still be a very big win for Calzaghe and is definitely not a foregone conclusion. BHop has just beaten Winky (5-6 P4P at the time) and, prior to that, the number 1 light-heavy. This is a very different proposition to Lewis-Tyson. It's not a fight I want to see, but I can appreciate why it will probably be made. The best middleweight of recent times (with 20 defences) against the best supermiddle (21 defences). A very good undercard could be made and everyone makes money.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 07 Nov 2007, 12:07

Chambers2 wrote:It would definately be one for the purists, more chance of seeing a KO at a Sunday morning football match. I'd definately prefer to see him face Froch, Bute, Mundine, Woods..... but Calzaghes understandably looking for a good pension from the sport, him and Frank are mentioning £$£$£$£$'s at every possible opportunity and the wonga is in the US.

It will be a massive fight and considering some of Calzaghes previous opponents we really shouldn't be complaining. I hope the fight takes place at 175

I get the feeling that Calzaghe isn't skint, Hopkins does mean more money but he is a proven great fighter Froch isn't nor is woods they are good fighters (froch may go on to be a great one but who knows) its a fight that has needed to be made for a while and though we are underestimating Hopkins you can be sure as hell the yanks don't.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 07 Nov 2007, 12:10

Katz makes a case that they'll take all the money for the main event, but could have a good undercard by matching UK v GBP prospects. I think not myself - Hennessey is more likely to do that kind of thing that Warren, IMO.

I believe Calzaghe wants PPV money. I don't know how much they can draw to a US arena. Maybe not that much. Joe woudl have been able to draw in America if he'd fought there already...

But if he'd fought there already, he may not have been the home draw that he's become in the last 4 fights. Right now, LIVE GATE is surely a great earner for Joe, and this is a known quantity, which would pay off vs Woods, Froch etc.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 07 Nov 2007, 12:17

Could be the Hop fight falls through - Frank is a hardball negotiator and the other guy is even worse. BH seems himself as a living legend, and will expect to get paid through the roof for the risk of taking on Calzaghe.

Might be he has to look to the winner of the bizzare Jones/Trinidad matchup - assuming one of them wins in a showstopping spectacular manner. In which case, everything changes.

Flav1 · Post by **Flav1** » 07 Nov 2007, 12:32

Autobarn wrote:Stumbling block already? Warren says Calzaghe is the draw. This hints strongly that Joe should get the better money.

Warren also says there's somethin going round about a Hopkins-Wright rematch and that Prozac should sponsor it, LOL

Here we go.

Who is the draw though? A split purse with a punt to the winner would be fair.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 07 Nov 2007, 12:36

What the fooks with all the talk of brittle chinned Dawson? Hes just a titlist, like Woods and whoever holds the shitty wba strap. Heir Apparent? What a load of boll#cks. Hopkins is THE MAN regardless of age.

Who gives a sh#t about Dawson, other than a few hardcores on a boxing forum?

Hopkins getting slapped silly will be a spectacle and a nice payday to send JC into retirment.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 07 Nov 2007, 12:37

Flav1 wrote:
Autobarn wrote:Stumbling block already? Warren says Calzaghe is the draw. This hints strongly that Joe should get the better money.

Warren also says there's somethin going round about a Hopkins-Wright rematch and that Prozac should sponsor it, LOL
Here we go.

Who is the draw though? A split purse with a punt to the winner would be fair.

That would make sense......it'll never happen

Flav1 · Post by **Flav1** » 07 Nov 2007, 12:42

Like most things in boxing :(

chesh · Post by **chesh** » 07 Nov 2007, 12:44

MightyWarrior wrote:Could be the Hop fight falls through - Frank is a hardball negotiator and the other guy is even worse. BH seems himself as a living legend, and will expect to get paid through the roof for the risk of taking on Calzaghe.

Might be he has to look to the winner of the bizzare Jones/Trinidad matchup - assuming one of them wins in a showstopping spectacular manner. In which case, everything changes.

He'll have to negotiate with Golden Boy and they are major players and have proven consistently that the big fights can be made. There should be no stumbling block. I'm sure Joe would get his biggest payday and both promotional companies would do well out of it. There would be US PPV and good gate money from Yankee Stadium.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 07 Nov 2007, 13:16

Dawson's a great talent. If he could land a fight with Hopkins, I'm sure Dawson would be the man at 175. But there is the HBO/Showtime split. Showtime are grooming Dawson as their great America star (IMO) and they've done him a favor letting him fight Jesus Ruiz (they never give good fighters easy opponents). Dawson was excellent getting up to beat Harding (who's 1-1 v Tarver) and Adamek. Sadly his WBC mandatory pulled out on him injured, the very tough Diaconu.

I think all this Ring Title stuff has really helped the older fighters that don't want to take on their top contenders. I mean Hopkins was apparently shopping for a Wright rematch - what kind of champ does that make him? We already know he's a modern great, but light heavyweight king's a bit iffy.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 08 Nov 2007, 09:46

You guys are unbelievably naive.. So JC takes on Kessler in a mouth watering match, whups him bad, and... you guys now expect a 35 yr old brittle handed guy to clear out all the Mundines, Frochs, and Butes and whoever else is well below Kessler?

Where the fook does it end?

Go up to 175, dont piss about with no names like Dawson and Woods and guys only a small forum of hardcores care about, fight the lineal Man smash him into the canvas and collect a huge pension payoff & US respect.

Why are you guys making it so frickin complicated??

Wrists · Post by **Wrists** » 08 Nov 2007, 12:07

Couldn't agree more

Hopkins is the fight - who cares about Froch, Dawson, Bute etc etc

Hopkins is top 6 pfp - how is this a bad fight?

Hopkins in the US then 2 more in the UK for me, Clinton Woods then a finale against Roy Jones, nice name and KO to go out on

Joe has no more to prove. Let the likes of Froch, Dawson etc etc fight each other whilst Joe pounds the Guiness and Pasta

Regards

Wrists

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 08 Nov 2007, 12:18

overhand_right wrote:You guys are unbelievably naive.. So JC takes on Kessler in a mouth watering match, whups him bad, and... you guys now expect a 35 yr old brittle handed guy to clear out all the Mundines, Frochs, and Butes and whoever else is well below Kessler?

Where the fook does it end?

Go up to 175, dont piss about with no names like Dawson and Woods and guys only a small forum of hardcores care about, fight the lineal Man smash him into the canvas and collect a huge pension payoff & US respect.

Why are you guys making it so frickin complicated??

so you really want to see Hopkins - circle, move, hold, hit, head, spoil? Vs Calzaghe, with that combo of speed & experience. Bernard is negative, reflexes gone, only greatness left is his defense and fouling. It's big names but not great fights. Pac-MAB redux.

A lot of us want to see good fights. No one cares about lineal. It's just another claim. If Joe has 2 more big fights I'd like to see him vs a Yank (Pavlik, exciting, huge punch, kills himself to make 160; or Taylor, who did beat Hops twice) & a Brit (Froch or Woods).

Where does it end? Polish off Hopkins and it'll be Roy Jones afterward. Or Felix Trinidad. Jay Larkin already masterminded that 1 though it went nowhere.

I can't complain too much. Joe has proven himself at 168, with the bout we all wanted. But if he beats Hopkins, the Yanks will give him ZERO credit. They still don't rate Lewis for beating Evander. If it's remotely close you'll have some clod saying Hopkins won, starting up an internet fan club. If Joe loses, it's a disaster for his legacy.

All of this The Man stuff is ridiculously simplified. If we've leanred anything, if you're The Man you don't have to fight anyone!

We're already assuming that Joe vs Hopkins ever gets made. Last I heard Warren was sayig how much Joe was the draw. We know how much Joe can draw to an arena vs a world title holder. We know that a PPV vs Pavlik would surpass a PPV v Hopkins, with the right promotion.

Wrists · Post by **Wrists** » 08 Nov 2007, 12:22

What has Pavlik done??

He has beaten 1 good fighter!! - Hopkins like it or not is the best fight out there for Joe simple as that

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 08 Nov 2007, 14:57

Pavlik brings massive excitement and soon, massive attention. Look at the progress he made this year, knocking out a fringe level guy (Zertuche), a world class contender (Miranda), and the middleweight champ (Taylor). He's got big power and a super middle frame. he also beat the guy who thrashed Vic Oganov - Fully Zuniga - inside the distance a few yrs back.

Hopkins is a great. If he's up to the task, I'm all for it. Perhaps he wasn't carrying enough weight vs Wright, and would be better back to being a full 175. Perhaps he has no reflexes and beat a fat blob in a wrestling match. If Bernard has it in him to compete at this stage, I'll be ok with it. But I can envisage a fight that will be a horrible mess. Don't know about everyone else, but I regretted staying up for Hopkins-Taylor 1, 2, and Hopkins-Wright. I'll still watch cos it's Hopkins and cos it's Joe (and a lot of ppl will do this just to see which name wins).

I have a feeling they won't be able to resist a big $ PPV in an impressive arena. I also suspect that negotiations will be very hard, and that if it doesn't happen, that Joe has 3 or 4 other very lucrative options.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 08 Nov 2007, 16:05

Calzaghe has completed a legacy at SMW. Bookended with winning the title against Eubank, a spattering here and there of decent fighters, an showstopper against Lacy and the superb win over Kessler. He has unified the division winning all the main titles on offer, there’s nothing else he needs to prove at the weight that shouldn’t have already been proved before now. From a fan’s point of view the best fight out there, as far as a spectacle is concerned, is Pavlik. But why should Calzaghe wait around for Pavlik at SMW, when there is little that the SMW division has to offer in the mean time.

I don't begrudge Calzaghe moving up to LHW to fight Hopkins in a big money spinner. Like many others I think this fight would be a disappointing spectacle, given the reputation of the fighters involved. After that possibly Woods or Dawson to close out his career.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 09 Nov 2007, 07:12

SticknMove wrote:Calzaghe has completed a legacy at SMW. Bookended with winning the title against Eubank, a spattering here and there of decent fighters, an showstopper against Lacy and the superb win over Kessler. He has unified the division winning all the main titles on offer, there’s nothing else he needs to prove at the weight that shouldn’t have already been proved before now. From a fan’s point of view the best fight out there, as far as a spectacle is concerned, is Pavlik. But why should Calzaghe wait around for Pavlik at SMW, when there is little that the SMW division has to offer in the mean time.

I don't begrudge Calzaghe moving up to LHW to fight Hopkins in a big money spinner. Like many others I think this fight would be a disappointing spectacle, given the reputation of the fighters involved. After that possibly Woods or Dawson to close out his career.

Bute would certainly be okay if its Pavlik. Personally, I don't think Pavlik is a particularly good call - let him cement himself as a champion first. He went down in my estimation an awful lot in his last fight (as weird as that sounds).

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Nov 2007, 08:00

If Pavlik knocks out Taylor again, he'll be a massive star. Not like Hopkins, whose Golden Boy seal of approval and proven quality at the top makes him a moderate PPV success. Pavlik is actually getting ppl interested in him, with his power, vulnerability etc.

Pavlik's trainer's already gone on record saying that Kelly would knock Joe out.

Bute doesn't really make sense. Only just won his title, wants to grow into his belt and build up big support in Canada. Nor does Mundine, who holds a very minor belt and has a tricky counter punching style (not to mention he needs his eye to get better, and that he can make good money in Oz). Froch & Woods for the British audience, definitely, with Woods more likely being a champ and a light heavy. If Taylor beats Pavlik this time, Taylor will want the next money assignment and a super middle title.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 09 Nov 2007, 08:20

pundit wrote:This is a bit like Lennox vs. Tyson. Lennox had to fight Tyson, otherwise some jerks would always have said he had ducked Mighty Mike. Although Tyson wasn't competitive any more by the time they fought. And of course it was a nice payday for LL.

Nobody with more than 1 brain cell could ever have accused Lewis of ducking Tyson had they never fought.

Lewis was ready to fight Tyson from about 1992 onwards, but Tyson could not keep out of trouble, then in 1996, he paid Lewis money to step aside, because team Tyson knew LL was too much risk for too little money.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Nov 2007, 13:32

surely Calzaghe-Hopkins won't be half the draw that it should be unless Joe actually has an American fight to build it all up?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 09 Nov 2007, 15:53

Autobarn wrote:If Pavlik knocks out Taylor again, he'll be a massive star. Not like Hopkins, whose Golden Boy seal of approval and proven quality at the top makes him a moderate PPV success. Pavlik is actually getting ppl interested in him, with his power, vulnerability etc.

Pavlik's trainer's already gone on record saying that Kelly would knock Joe out.

Bute doesn't really make sense. Only just won his title, wants to grow into his belt and build up big support in Canada. Nor does Mundine, who holds a very minor belt and has a tricky counter punching style (not to mention he needs his eye to get better, and that he can make good money in Oz). Froch & Woods for the British audience, definitely, with Woods more likely being a champ and a light heavy. If Taylor beats Pavlik this time, Taylor will want the next money assignment and a super middle title.

I agree with that, what I meant was in response to the other poster who thought Pavlik would be the best fight - but its probably 12 months time. I just suggested Bute as a time filler. He is better than Mundine and could be up there with Kessler. Mundine I completely agree with - wouldn't want to see that.

I agree that if Pavlik beats Taylor, that would cement his championship creditials and box office power - Not convinced its a forgone conclusion.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Nov 2007, 15:59

Anyway, we'll pick all these opponents & Joe will fight someone totally different!

If he was to fight Hopkins, he surely would first need to have had a fight in America to show them who he is.

I wouldn't mind seeing him beat Woods, defend in America v someone like Glen Johnson, before "unifying" with Hopkins.

IMO Joe will keep carrying on if he's still good.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 09 Nov 2007, 16:04

Autobarn wrote:Anyway, we'll pick all these opponents & Joe will fight someone totally different!

If he was to fight Hopkins, he surely would first need to have had a fight in America to show them who he is.

I wouldn't mind seeing him beat Woods, defend in America v someone like Glen Johnson, before "unifying" with Hopkins.

IMO Joe will keep carrying on if he's still good.

Do you think Joe will retire, like Sven did, as soon as he knew he was in decline but "getting away" with wins - or do you think the only way Joe will find out if he has lost it via a defeat?

Just a question.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 11 Nov 2007, 11:32

Autobarn wrote:Anyway, we'll pick all these opponents & Joe will fight someone totally different!

If he was to fight Hopkins, he surely would first need to have had a fight in America to show them who he is.

I wouldn't mind seeing him beat Woods, defend in America v someone like Glen Johnson, before "unifying" with Hopkins.

IMO Joe will keep carrying on if he's still good.

I can't see what the attraction in going to America now is.

Jow should have gone to America in 1999 & beat a path to the doorstep of Roy Jones Jr & shamed Roy into fighting him.

That was the time to go Stateside.

Going there now to fight 44 year old middleweights in 2008 means nothing, especially when there are 2 potentially great fights to be had against British opposition.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 11 Nov 2007, 11:36

stujones wrote:
Autobarn wrote:Anyway, we'll pick all these opponents & Joe will fight someone totally different!

If he was to fight Hopkins, he surely would first need to have had a fight in America to show them who he is.

I wouldn't mind seeing him beat Woods, defend in America v someone like Glen Johnson, before "unifying" with Hopkins.

IMO Joe will keep carrying on if he's still good.
Do you think Joe will retire, like Sven did, as soon as he knew he was in decline but "getting away" with wins - or do you think the only way Joe will find out if he has lost it via a defeat?

Just a question.

Not sure really. He seems to have alot in the tank. Amazing that he took off too much weight, miscalculated, but still had massive speed and energy. I don't think Joe will let himself lose. Reckon he'd get out if there were any alarm signals in the gym.