BoxRec

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 16:24

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 12:41 Joseph Parker got paid $12 million against Joshua alone. Golovkin easily makes $20 or $25 mill or more in the UK

I can't see Golovkin making even half that for a Saunders fight in the UK.

Parker fought a massive PPV attraction in Joshua. Saunders isn't even close to being in that ballpark, and Warren's events don't attract anywhere near as much casual attention as Hearn's, even if Saunders was a big draw.

Putting things in perspective, Kell Brook (at the time of the Golovkin fight) was a much bigger name over here than Saunders is now, despite it being middleweight vs welterweight. Brook was a highly popular fighter, signed to the best promoter as far as generating money goes, taking on a big risk. People took notice.

Outside of hardcore fans, Saunders isn't even that well known.

These were the reported purses for Golovkin vs Brook:

Golovkin - $5m flat fee.
Brook - $5m, plus any remaining PPV earnings.

There's no way in hell Golovkin is going to earn 4x that amount for fighting a less popular fighter. If his own profile has been raised, following the first Canelo fight, and US PPV pick it up, he MIGHT earn $10m.

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 12:41 If the average ticket price is $150 times 50k. That alone is $7.5 million, and that's an extreme lowball estimate. Not even factoring UK PPV sales

GGG vs Saunders also isn't big enough to be a stadium fight over here. It would most likely be at the O2 (around 20k capacity). Taking your average ticket price, that's only a $3m gate.

UK PPV, priced at £20 ($27) and doing 500k buys (a high estimate), brings in another $13.5m. That's $16.5m so far. It wouldn't be PPV in America if it was staged at UK time, so not a lot more to be made there. A bit from sponsorship and worldwide TV rights... You might be looking at a total generated sum of around $20m. Maybe slightly higher even, but that's before taking BT Sport's cut of the PPV money, Warren's cut (if he takes the same as Eddie, that's 20% off the top), any venue and security fees etc.

Before tax, I doubt that leaves Golovkin earning much more than for the Brook fight.

Held in the US, it's slightly different, because even 250k PPV buys at $70 gives you $17.5m, before anything else is added. 350k (a high, but realistic estimate) would give $24.5m, and so on.

If it happens, I think Saunders needs to travel.

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 17:34

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 16:24

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 12:41 Joseph Parker got paid $12 million against Joshua alone. Golovkin easily makes $20 or $25 mill or more in the UK

I can't see Golovkin making even half that for a Saunders fight in the UK.

Parker fought a massive PPV attraction in Joshua. Saunders isn't even close to being in that ballpark, and Warren's events don't attract anywhere near as much casual attention as Hearn's, even if Saunders was a big draw.

Putting things in perspective, Kell Brook (at the time of the Golovkin fight) was a much bigger name over here than Saunders is now, despite it being middleweight vs welterweight. Brook was a highly popular fighter, signed to the best promoter as far as generating money goes, taking on a big risk. People took notice.

Outside of hardcore fans, Saunders isn't even that well known.

These were the reported purses for Golovkin vs Brook:

Golovkin - $5m flat fee.
Brook - $5m, plus any remaining PPV earnings.

There's no way in hell Golovkin is going to earn 4x that amount for fighting a less popular fighter. If his own profile has been raised, following the first Canelo fight, and US PPV pick it up, he MIGHT earn $10m.

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 12:41 If the average ticket price is $150 times 50k. That alone is $7.5 million, and that's an extreme lowball estimate. Not even factoring UK PPV sales

GGG vs Saunders also isn't big enough to be a stadium fight over here. It would most likely be at the O2 (around 20k capacity). Taking your average ticket price, that's only a $3m gate.

UK PPV, priced at £20 ($27) and doing 500k buys (a high estimate), brings in another $13.5m. That's $16.5m so far. It wouldn't be PPV in America if it was staged at UK time, so not a lot more to be made there. A bit from sponsorship and worldwide TV rights... You might be looking at a total generated sum of around $20m. Maybe slightly higher even, but that's before taking BT Sport's cut of the PPV money, Warren's cut (if he takes the same as Eddie, that's 20% off the top), any venue and security fees etc.

Before tax, I doubt that leaves Golovkin earning much more than for the Brook fight.

Held in the US, it's slightly different, because even 250k PPV buys at $70 gives you $17.5m, before anything else is added. 350k (a high, but realistic estimate) would give $24.5m, and so on.

If it happens, I think Saunders needs to travel.

Most people (not all) who know Tyson Fury, now who Saunders is. And they def know who Golovkin is. A Golovkin-Brook fight wasn't going to fill a 50k arena because majority of them didn't see Brook winning. Even the folk who don't know Saunders (and I'm aware he's no superstar) may be rooting for a fellow Brit to win against Golovkin (who they certainly do know, as boxing fans) or just to say "I was there that night when the 5 belts were combined...and it wasn't Joshua/Wilder!"

An undisputed title fight between a UK champ and Golovkin, will be certainly a bigger attraction than Golovkin-Brooks was. That was a squash match, this actually has history at stake. And for UK boxing fans, it may represent one of the few times if not the last time (or second to last time) they even get to see GGG live. The tabloid/news coverage for the fight alone would make up for any lack of fanfare Saunders has had historically. The same way it does for Wilder in the US when/if he steps in the ring for Joshua.

Its very much doable. I don't doubt the fight generates at least $35 million. 70% of that leaves Golovkin with $24.5 mill and Saunders with $10.5 million. I'm aware PPV prices in the UK are £20. But its possible to do it PPV in the US too, if they schedule the timing right (Main event: 12am BST / 7pm EST). Besides close to half of the PPV goes to the carriers anyways. But i still feel there's money to be made there.

Saunders hasn't been a superstar because they didn't take him seriously compared to Golovkin and Canelo. That changes the moment he enters negotiations to fight GGG. Suddenly he's the #2 guy, instead of an outlier.

ewenhay wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 17:57
I think you are vastly overestimating the take for this fight. Deleted Scenes gave a pretty good breakdown of the likely numbers.

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:01

ewenhay wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 17:57
I think you are vastly overestimating the take for this fight. Deleted Scenes gave a pretty good breakdown of the likely numbers.

He's basing it entirely on a 20k attendance. Which I disagree with. I have it at twice that amount.

ewenhay wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:04

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:01

ewenhay wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 17:57
I think you are vastly overestimating the take for this fight. Deleted Scenes gave a pretty good breakdown of the likely numbers.

He's basing it entirely on a 20k attendance. Which I disagree with. I have it at twice that amount.

I don’t think Saunders v Golovkin is a stadium fight in the UK. Billy doesn't have the following and Golovkin, even after fighting Brook here, doesn't have that big a following either

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:06

ewenhay wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:04

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:01

He's basing it entirely on a 20k attendance. Which I disagree with. I have it at twice that amount.

I don’t think Saunders v Golovkin is a stadium fight in the UK. Billy doesn't have the following and Golovkin, even after fighting Brook here, doesn't have that big a following either

Then why does Warren keep talking about a Stadium fight? That costs him for essentially no reason.

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:06

ewenhay wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:04

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:01

He's basing it entirely on a 20k attendance. Which I disagree with. I have it at twice that amount.

I don’t think Saunders v Golovkin is a stadium fight in the UK. Billy doesn't have the following and Golovkin, even after fighting Brook here, doesn't have that big a following either

Then why does Warren keep talking about a Stadium fight? That costs him for essentially no reason.

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:06

ewenhay wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:04

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:01

He's basing it entirely on a 20k attendance. Which I disagree with. I have it at twice that amount.

I don’t think Saunders v Golovkin is a stadium fight in the UK. Billy doesn't have the following and Golovkin, even after fighting Brook here, doesn't have that big a following either

Then why does Warren keep talking about a Stadium fight? That costs him for essentially no reason.

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:38

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:06

ewenhay wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:04

I don’t think Saunders v Golovkin is a stadium fight in the UK. Billy doesn't have the following and Golovkin, even after fighting Brook here, doesn't have that big a following either

Then why does Warren keep talking about a Stadium fight? That costs him for essentially no reason.

It's a díck measuring contest with Hearn. If you can fill the place for a Joshua fight, I can too for a Saunders fight etc. Then when it doesn't happen, he'll blame Golovkin's side for not offering enough, at the same time still claiming it would fill a stadium. Point is, if that's true, YOU make the offer to Golovkin. Surely there's enough money there to make sure everyone gets paid, right?

Except there isn't. Not stadium kind of money, anyway. Not that many fights could fill a stadium here. Joshua fights and certain local rivalries, or fighters in huge fights in their local area are the exception. Fans are pretty tribal over here. Saunders doesn't have that, being part of the travelling community. He's not popular in one city. His fanbase is spread out, so he can't fill a stadium where someone like Josh Warrington (with the right opponent) can.

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:38
It's a díck measuring contest with Hearn. If you can fill the place for a Joshua fight, I can too for a Saunders fight etc. Then when it doesn't happen, he'll blame Golovkin's side for not offering enough, at the same time still claiming it would fill a stadium. Point is, if that's true, YOU make the offer to Golovkin. Surely there's enough money there to make sure everyone gets paid, right?

Except there isn't. Not stadium kind of money, anyway. Not that many fights could fill a stadium here. Joshua fights and certain local rivalries, or fighters in huge fights in their local area are the exception. Fans are pretty tribal over here. Saunders doesn't have that, being part of the travelling community. He's not popular in one city. His fanbase is spread out, so he can't fill a stadium where someone like Josh Warrington (with the right opponent) can.

oogiebe wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:39
Whooooaaaa...To much sense...!

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:46

oogiebe wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:39
Whooooaaaa...To much sense...!

Says the guy complaining about "Longest freakin' posts. ZZzzzz."... We really needed your endorsement to decide what makes sense or doesn't.

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:44

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 18:38
It's a díck measuring contest with Hearn. If you can fill the place for a Joshua fight, I can too for a Saunders fight etc. Then when it doesn't happen, he'll blame Golovkin's side for not offering enough, at the same time still claiming it would fill a stadium. Point is, if that's true, YOU make the offer to Golovkin. Surely there's enough money there to make sure everyone gets paid, right?

Except there isn't. Not stadium kind of money, anyway. Not that many fights could fill a stadium here. Joshua fights and certain local rivalries, or fighters in huge fights in their local area are the exception. Fans are pretty tribal over here. Saunders doesn't have that, being part of the travelling community. He's not popular in one city. His fanbase is spread out, so he can't fill a stadium where someone like Josh Warrington (with the right opponent) can.

I know about the rivalry between these two promoters, but I don't underestimate the fight being huge. Warren attempting to blame the whole lack of attendance on GGG's side still costs him money, he doesn't magically make the difference from Golovkin. If it was a 20k arena fight, they'd just do it in one. No point booking a stadium for 3x that seating.

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 19:10
I guess we'll have to wait and see what he actually books, if the fight gets made then.

Talking about booking, and actually booking... Not the same thing. Let's see if Warren puts his money where his mouth is.

I don't see it happening though. Warren has a long history of being reluctant to match his champions in tough fights.

squiggy wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 12:18

SenorPipino wrote: ↑06 May 2018, 22:10Canelo's the face of boxing.

Like Cosby's the face of comedy. Widespread perception now is that his connections jobbed GGG out of the win in the first fight, and now his shady hijinks (and probably straight-up cheating) cost us all the resolution that this weekend's rematch should've provided.

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 19:27

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 19:10
I guess we'll have to wait and see what he actually books, if the fight gets made then.

Talking about booking, and actually booking... Not the same thing. Let's see if Warren puts his money where his mouth is.

I don't see it happening though. Warren has a long history of being reluctant to match his champions in tough fights.

Tbh I think that's both promoters. Brook's record is a travesty. All no-name mandos, and lost the 2 times he stepped up (one of which also mando). The guy is only relevant outside the UK for calling out Khan the last 5 years. Haven't seen a single interview or appearance he's done where he isn't talking about Amir Khan, smh. Some people let the Khan hate blind themselves into bigging up Brook but their records aren't even comparable. One has wins over 10 world champs, the other has 3 and only 1 of them was a decent name (Shawn Porter). He's been champ since the Pac/Floyd era but kept his belt longer by fighting cans, and instead of unifying or even fighting the opponents Pac/Floyd fought he kept calling out a guy smaller than him.

bmilligan wrote: ↑08 May 2018, 10:56 After the hoops that GGG seemed to have gone thru. I think this is fair.

Will it happen? I am not too sure.

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑08 May 2018, 09:53

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 19:27
Tbh I think that's both promoters. Brook's record is a travesty. All no-name mandos, and lost the 2 times he stepped up (one of which also mando). The guy is only relevant outside the UK for calling out Khan the last 5 years. Haven't seen a single interview or appearance he's done where he isn't talking about Amir Khan, smh. Some people let the Khan hate blind themselves into bigging up Brook but their records aren't even comparable. One has wins over 10 world champs, the other has 3 and only 1 of them was a decent name (Shawn Porter). He's been champ since the Pac/Floyd era but kept his belt longer by fighting cans, and instead of unifying or even fighting the opponents Pac/Floyd fought he kept calling out a guy smaller than him.

Well, where you too me to blame the WBA, maybe you should blame the IBF. Brook's record isn't really relevant. The point was he's a huge deal in Sheffield, while Saunders isn't anywhere. While his record may not be great, the only fights he had a choice over, while he was holding the IBF belt, were Frankie Gavin and Golovkin. The rest he had no choice over. Hearn tried making fights with Diego Chaves and Tim Bradley, as well as Khan, but either they weren't interested, or Brook was in hospital with a career threatening injury. Vargas went another route too, after being named mandatory some time before Brook vs Golovkin.

Worth noting about Khan, both he and Brook were full grown welters at the time Brook was chasing that fight. There's barely a half inch difference between them in height, and Khan has fully filled out into his frame. He couldn't make anything less than 147 anymore, and hasn't even fought AT 147 since 2015. When Brook was chasing Khan, Khan was chasing Mayweather, Pacquiao, and a Garcia rematch. Brook was a beltholder in the very same weight class.

Name me one fighter who doesn't chase the biggest money fights available. Nothing wrong with that. I'd want to get paid too, if I was being smacked in the face for a living.

I'm not a huge Eddie Hearn fan, but he's made far more dangerous fights than Warren has, over the years.

DA1 wrote: ↑08 May 2018, 11:35

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑08 May 2018, 09:53

DA1 wrote: ↑07 May 2018, 19:27
Tbh I think that's both promoters. Brook's record is a travesty. All no-name mandos, and lost the 2 times he stepped up (one of which also mando). The guy is only relevant outside the UK for calling out Khan the last 5 years. Haven't seen a single interview or appearance he's done where he isn't talking about Amir Khan, smh. Some people let the Khan hate blind themselves into bigging up Brook but their records aren't even comparable. One has wins over 10 world champs, the other has 3 and only 1 of them was a decent name (Shawn Porter). He's been champ since the Pac/Floyd era but kept his belt longer by fighting cans, and instead of unifying or even fighting the opponents Pac/Floyd fought he kept calling out a guy smaller than him.

Well, where you too me to blame the WBA, maybe you should blame the IBF. Brook's record isn't really relevant. The point was he's a huge deal in Sheffield, while Saunders isn't anywhere. While his record may not be great, the only fights he had a choice over, while he was holding the IBF belt, were Frankie Gavin and Golovkin. The rest he had no choice over. Hearn tried making fights with Diego Chaves and Tim Bradley, as well as Khan, but either they weren't interested, or Brook was in hospital with a career threatening injury. Vargas went another route too, after being named mandatory some time before Brook vs Golovkin.

Worth noting about Khan, both he and Brook were full grown welters at the time Brook was chasing that fight. There's barely a half inch difference between them in height, and Khan has fully filled out into his frame. He couldn't make anything less than 147 anymore, and hasn't even fought AT 147 since 2015. When Brook was chasing Khan, Khan was chasing Mayweather, Pacquiao, and a Garcia rematch. Brook was a beltholder in the very same weight class.

Name me one fighter who doesn't chase the biggest money fights available. Nothing wrong with that. I'd want to get paid too, if I was being smacked in the face for a living.

I'm not a huge Eddie Hearn fan, but he's made far more dangerous fights than Warren has, over the years.

This is one confusing post. I never said i don't blame the IBF. But the IBF can't make unifications happen. That's for the fighter to chase those, and superfights.

Which brings me to your second point. Yes, Khan was chasing the top guys, but what was Brook doing? I was complaining about Brook's record being mediocre not Khan's. Khan unified his belt and was attempting to do it twice. Brook kept chasing Khan, while Khan chased the guys on top. That basically sums up their career positions and where they stand on the hierarchy. Brook is relevant only for calling out Khan, otherwise he'd be forgotten like the tons of other European/Asian beltholders tend to be by mainstream media/fans outside their immediate markets.

I'm not trying to pass the buck from Warren. He's in bed with the WBO, that's a known fact. Every event he does has multiple WBO regional belts on the line. Warren and Sky Sports are the sole reason why WBO is even a recognized title but the IBO isn't (Hint: they were both founded the same year, and there were IBO undisputed titleholders before there was ever a WBO undisputed titleholder), because they promoted the WBO as being one (whereas the IBO wasn't in bed with promoters like the other bodies, nor did it handout free titles like the IBF did to existing champions to gain recognition by proxy).