BoxRec

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑02 Jan 2022, 13:17

mickey1975 wrote: ↑02 Jan 2022, 00:44

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑01 Jan 2022, 18:46 Eubank snr. And Calzaghe's and Froch's probably better than both Eubank's and Collins'.

Whartons.

Henry?

polecateddy wrote: ↑02 Jan 2022, 13:42

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑02 Jan 2022, 13:17

mickey1975 wrote: ↑02 Jan 2022, 00:44
Whartons.

Henry?

It will be. It certainly was very solid. Only the flakey Italian ever floored him I think. He took a bit of a shelling against Eubank, which effectively broke him as a fighter. I would be hesitant to say it was definitely as good a chin as Eubank and Froch, who both regularly took more punishment.

orbtastic wrote: ↑02 Jan 2022, 16:28 Benn hit him with a huge right cross flush on the chin and it just moved him sideways.

I watched the Eubank fight in some pub in York. Bit of a locals casuals pub, very pro Wharton. It was a painful watch but despite the eye injury I don’t think he was particularly hurt or in trouble.

polecateddy wrote: ↑02 Jan 2022, 18:36

orbtastic wrote: ↑02 Jan 2022, 16:28 Benn hit him with a huge right cross flush on the chin and it just moved him sideways.

I watched the Eubank fight in some pub in York. Bit of a locals casuals pub, very pro Wharton. It was a painful watch but despite the eye injury I don’t think he was particularly hurt or in trouble.

I think Wharton said he held back too much against Benn, so in what was his last shot he gave it everything against Eubank. I think Wharton was pretty out on his feet through exhaustion by the end of that one. Eubank probably was capable of putting him away but didn’t really have the killer instinct anymore.

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑28 Dec 2021, 14:09 For me Eubank. Even when he has hurt he was very aware. The knockdowns were often off balance type scenarios.

I mean look at his head! It's like a bowling ball in size and solidity. Like McCall. Seemed impossible to genuinely knockout.

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑03 Jan 2022, 11:14 Eubank more tired than Wharton at the end of their fight, mickey1975 ???

Who won the contest ?

You don't get results because you haven't emptied your tank by the finish....it's what separates world champions from the 'also rans'.

I'd much rather have the win and be exhausted, than losing but being able to claim I wasn't as knackered as my opponent !

What a bizarro ideology that is

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑03 Jan 2022, 12:54 Henry was a bloody good fighter, without question, but don't you think some of your angles are a bit disingenuous

Also, square footed or not when he got crunched by Nardielo...he was hurt big time. Fair play to Wharton for coming back and doing the business

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑03 Jan 2022, 12:58 Chin's don't come much, or any, better than Froch.

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑03 Jan 2022, 14:39 mickey1975, well if Wharton said he wasn't hurt against Nardielo I suppose he should know, but I just find that hard to take on board.

If Eubank was the hardest man he boxed, and he was a hardman, I would still argue it's a good job he didn't face Froch or Calzaghe.


Maggie, we won't see eye to eye on this subject. For me having a top tier chin is ultimately proven by how prepared you are to put yourself in the danger zone if it means getting the win.

Apart from his loss to Ward, Froch was prepared to do just that if needed and did this his whole career and against top grade opposition.

I willingly accept Hagler, Golovkin and Canelo but I don't think that goes against the point I made.

Dave Allen has a sound chin at Area/English level...if he'd have tried to win against Whyte, Yoka or Ortiz rather than just try to withstand punches I'm sure he would have got stopped or dropped.

I don't buy into Allen's "teak" toughness.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑03 Jan 2022, 13:24

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑03 Jan 2022, 12:58 Chin's don't come much, or any, better than Froch.

they certainly can come better, froch was dropped hard twice and rattled a couple other times. there are some fighters who were so durable they were never even down, or had at most 1 case of being buzzed. mccall, chuvalo, and hagler for example. more recently wach, golovkin, canelo, provo, vitali, abraham, and the great dave allen.

froch was hard as f@ck but not among the very hardest freak tier for chin

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑03 Jan 2022, 12:58 Chin's don't come much, or any, better than Froch.

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑03 Jan 2022, 14:39 mickey1975, well if Wharton said he wasn't hurt against Nardielo I suppose he should know, but I just find that hard to take on board.

If Eubank was the hardest man he boxed, and he was a hardman, I would still argue it's a good job he didn't face Froch or Calzaghe.


Maggie, we won't see eye to eye on this subject. For me having a top tier chin is ultimately proven by how prepared you are to put yourself in the danger zone if it means getting the win.

Apart from his loss to Ward, Froch was prepared to do just that if needed and did this his whole career and against top grade opposition.

I willingly accept Hagler, Golovkin and Canelo but I don't think that goes against the point I made.

Dave Allen has a sound chin at Area/English level...if he'd have tried to win against Whyte, Yoka or Ortiz rather than just try to withstand punches I'm sure he would have got stopped or dropped.

I don't buy into Allen's "teak" toughness.

stujones wrote: ↑03 Jan 2022, 16:31 Not sure how people can say Collins' chin was over rated - the first Eubank fight aside, I cannot remember him being hurt as a Super Middlewight. .

He suffered a flash, almost embarrassing KD vs that American Fireman but he took some of Eubanks and Benn's best shots and from the Eubank rematch on, just looked like an animal that couldn't be moved.

Whilst Nigel Benn was shot in their fights - he still carried power and there were times in both fights where he caught Collins absolutely flush on the chin and Collins just brushed it off. I honestly think that broke Benn's heart in the rematch.

Not saying it was better than Eubank - but at the same time don't think we can say his chin was over rated cos its not like he showed he was hurt at all really. Now boxing ability etc is a different debate.

On a pure chin debate, I would just (just) edge it to Collins if I had to be asked mainly because Eubank had a better defence and ability to ride the shots - Collins took some whacks from Eubank and Benn that were flush on the chin.

Skill wise and athleticm - whilst I think Collins' ability is somewhat underrated - I would have Benn, Eubank and Calzaghe ahead of him. Froch it would have been interesting. However, pure STRENGTH at 12 stone - Collins would be my #1, not just in the UK. Eubank was strong at 12 stone, but Collins looked like he was in a different weight class. I would probably have Froch at #2 in terms of pure strength for the weight.

dookus wrote: ↑04 Jan 2022, 07:50

stujones wrote: ↑03 Jan 2022, 16:31 Not sure how people can say Collins' chin was over rated - the first Eubank fight aside, I cannot remember him being hurt as a Super Middlewight. .

He suffered a flash, almost embarrassing KD vs that American Fireman but he took some of Eubanks and Benn's best shots and from the Eubank rematch on, just looked like an animal that couldn't be moved.

Whilst Nigel Benn was shot in their fights - he still carried power and there were times in both fights where he caught Collins absolutely flush on the chin and Collins just brushed it off. I honestly think that broke Benn's heart in the rematch.

Not saying it was better than Eubank - but at the same time don't think we can say his chin was over rated cos its not like he showed he was hurt at all really. Now boxing ability etc is a different debate.

On a pure chin debate, I would just (just) edge it to Collins if I had to be asked mainly because Eubank had a better defence and ability to ride the shots - Collins took some whacks from Eubank and Benn that were flush on the chin.

Skill wise and athleticm - whilst I think Collins' ability is somewhat underrated - I would have Benn, Eubank and Calzaghe ahead of him. Froch it would have been interesting. However, pure STRENGTH at 12 stone - Collins would be my #1, not just in the UK. Eubank was strong at 12 stone, but Collins looked like he was in a different weight class. I would probably have Froch at #2 in terms of pure strength for the weight.

Benn landed an absolutely perfect flush left hook on Collins in round 3 of their first fight. Collins would later say "I thought he had broken all of my teeth and this horrible taste filled my mouth." And he still walked right through it!

polecateddy wrote: ↑04 Jan 2022, 08:51

dookus wrote: ↑04 Jan 2022, 07:50

stujones wrote: ↑03 Jan 2022, 16:31 Not sure how people can say Collins' chin was over rated - the first Eubank fight aside, I cannot remember him being hurt as a Super Middlewight. .

He suffered a flash, almost embarrassing KD vs that American Fireman but he took some of Eubanks and Benn's best shots and from the Eubank rematch on, just looked like an animal that couldn't be moved.

Whilst Nigel Benn was shot in their fights - he still carried power and there were times in both fights where he caught Collins absolutely flush on the chin and Collins just brushed it off. I honestly think that broke Benn's heart in the rematch.

Not saying it was better than Eubank - but at the same time don't think we can say his chin was over rated cos its not like he showed he was hurt at all really. Now boxing ability etc is a different debate.

On a pure chin debate, I would just (just) edge it to Collins if I had to be asked mainly because Eubank had a better defence and ability to ride the shots - Collins took some whacks from Eubank and Benn that were flush on the chin.

Skill wise and athleticm - whilst I think Collins' ability is somewhat underrated - I would have Benn, Eubank and Calzaghe ahead of him. Froch it would have been interesting. However, pure STRENGTH at 12 stone - Collins would be my #1, not just in the UK. Eubank was strong at 12 stone, but Collins looked like he was in a different weight class. I would probably have Froch at #2 in terms of pure strength for the weight.

Benn landed an absolutely perfect flush left hook on Collins in round 3 of their first fight. Collins would later say "I thought he had broken all of my teeth and this horrible taste filled my mouth." And he still walked right through it!

I don’t think hard core boxing fans give Collins a huge amount of credit for those Eubank and Benn wins. Benn was certainly done after the Gerald fight. He was ragged and off-target from then on. Eubank was just generally worn out by then too. I’d think a fresher Eubank and a Benn doing more boxing and less slugging circa Eubank/Benn 2 would have been able to decision the slower Collins.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑03 Jan 2022, 14:46

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑03 Jan 2022, 14:39 mickey1975, well if Wharton said he wasn't hurt against Nardielo I suppose he should know, but I just find that hard to take on board.

If Eubank was the hardest man he boxed, and he was a hardman, I would still argue it's a good job he didn't face Froch or Calzaghe.


Maggie, we won't see eye to eye on this subject. For me having a top tier chin is ultimately proven by how prepared you are to put yourself in the danger zone if it means getting the win.

Apart from his loss to Ward, Froch was prepared to do just that if needed and did this his whole career and against top grade opposition.

I willingly accept Hagler, Golovkin and Canelo but I don't think that goes against the point I made.

Dave Allen has a sound chin at Area/English level...if he'd have tried to win against Whyte, Yoka or Ortiz rather than just try to withstand punches I'm sure he would have got stopped or dropped.

I don't buy into Allen's "teak" toughness.

Henry will say Glenwood Brown in the amateurs as well when he was young.