BoxRec

apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 08:32

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 08:26

apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 07:20 The Ring Magazine's Annual Ratings:
Middleweight division

GGG's top 10 ranked opponents:
Grzegorz Proksa (10) 2012
Matthew Macklin (6); Curtis Stevens(10) 2013
Daniel Geale (4) 2014 for the World Boxing Association Super World Middleweight Title
David Lemieux (4) 2015 IBF champion for the International Boxing Federation World Middleweight Title
Daniel Jacobs (2) 2017
Saul Alvarez, (Champion) 2017

All I can see is that GGG's resume can compete in terms of achievements at 160 lbs weight division with Pavlik, Martinez, Taylor or Hopkins resumes.

That's a good-enough point, if we consider the boxing middleweight scene of nowadays: but if we compare today's middleweight scene, with the middleweight scene of just a few years ago, you might acknowledge that it's not the same.

Lemieux, just to name the one I know better among the ones you named, knocked out bums in Canada, just like Bute, but when he came out, he was schooled by Rubio, who, I guess, at his peak, could give GGG a hard time, if not a lesson.

In today's poor boxing middleweight scene, even Lemieux (don't mistake: the guy's alright, dangerous enough for the honest GGG, but not enough to scare Rubio, for instance...) might easily look scarier than he actually is.
,
Fact is that GGG has never met a big, relentless heavy puncher like Pavlik, an overly-skilled, hitting-from-all-angles, power puncher like Martinez, or a fast-and-furious swarmer like Taylor.

I respect your point, but we must always contextualise.

I think the nowadays version of Canelo beats any version of Pavlik or Martinez. So does Jacobs.

Canelo beating heavier Pavlik or Martinez (without schooling Martinez for sure, like GGG was schooled, and struggling much more than he did against GGG) might be plausible, but it's not certainly a point that proves my argument wrong.
Canelo would be fortunate earning a draw or a SD against both, by the way, as I see it.

Canelo has enormous and great professional experience for a guy so young, therefore, as much as amateur boxing is so different from pro, long-term amateurs like GGG will struggle more than a bit to survive to him; a slick, experienced, boisterous guy like Pavlik would be tougher opposition for Canelo. Martinez could be even worse...

I'm praising GGG, he's been honest and courageous enough to face one like Canelo, so props to GGG. Not to mention that GGG might have had a solid payday for his Canelo fights: that's not overly honourable... He cetrainly didn't do it for charity, and years ago, despite being older than Canelo, he was sure unripe enough to fight him, coming from a long amateur career.

Both Jacobs, and that Pirog he lost from (I've checked him and he looks like a dangerous power puncher), haven't built their career against great opposition, so despite Jacobs' great athletic assets, I don't believe he could give Martinez more than a concern... And if that Pirog (who beat Jacobs) would try to go toe-to-toe with 2007's Pavlik, trading shots with him, he might go to sleep a little earlier than he had planned.

It’s categorically impossible to deny the fact that Floyd Mayweather Jr. is an “all-time-great”, because he faced countless world champions, as well as (arguably) twelve (future) Hall-of-Fame inductees or fighters good enough to at least be included in the nominees listed in the annual IBHoF voting ballot, which includes the likes of:

• Arturo Gatti
• Oscar De La Hoya
• Juan Manuel Márquez
• Canelo
• Manny Pacquiao
• Genaro Hernández
• Jose Luis Castillo
• Diego Corrales
• Ricky Hatton
• Shane Mosley
• Miguel Cotto
• Zab Judah

Now let’s compare the opponents that I listed above to those that GGG has actually BEATEN that are similarly Hall-of-Fame calibre fighters? What names can you list for Golovkin?

Has GGG faced a similar amount of Hall-of-Famers to genuine all-time greats, such as: Sugar Ray Robinson; Muhammad Ali; Harry Greb; Henry Armstrong; Joe Luis; Evander Holyfield; Manny Pacquiao; Sugar Ray Leonard; Roberto Duran; Jack Johnson etc?

Remember, the topic of this thread is to evaluate GGG’s worthiness of being considered as an “all-time-great”, not merely a “Hall-of-Famer”!!!

On a separate note: apart from David Lemieux and Daniel Geale, how many fighters that held any of the legitimate versions of the world middleweight championship has GGG actually beaten?

Many people won't attempt to answer these questions, because they're unable to do so honestly without undermining their own argument.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 09:37 It’s categorically impossible to deny the fact that Floyd Mayweather Jr. is an “all-time-great”, because he faced countless world champions, as well as (arguably) twelve (future) Hall-of-Fame inductees or fighters good enough to at least be included in the nominees listed in the annual voting ballot, which includes the likes of:

• Arturo Gatti
• Oscar De La Hoya
• Juan Manuel Márquez
• Canelo
• Manny Pacquiao
• Genaro Hernández
• Jose Luis Castillo
• Diego Corrales
• Ricky Hatton
• Shane Mosley
• Miguel Cotto
• Zab Judah

Now let’s compare the opponents that I listed above to those that GGG faced that are similarly Hall-of-Fame calibre fighters?

Has GGG faced a similar amount of Hall-of-Famers to genuine all-time greats, such as: Sugar Ray Robinson; Harry Greb; Henry Armstrong; Joe Luis; Evander Holyfield; Manny Pacquiao; Sugar Ray Leonard; Roberto Duran; Jack Johnson etc?

Remember, the topic of this thread is to evaluate GGG’s worthiness of being considered as an “all-time-great”, not merely a “Hall-of-Famer”!!!

On a separate note: apart from David Lemieux and Daniel Geale, how many fighters that held any of the legitimate versions of the world middleweight championship has GGG actually beaten?

People won't answer these questions, because they're unable to do so honestly without undermining their own argument.

Now, how could be the argument above, be considered as an insult or even arrogance?

This dude Enlightened might be slightly deranged, using excessive question and exclamation marks, or vaguely hysterically-laughing emoticons, but I don't see any arrogance in his post above.

No one could even dream about not putting Mayweather Jr. in any top-10 p4p-all-time-great list, and putting GGG in any all-time-top-10-middleweight list: that's plain, even obvious common sense to me.

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 09:45

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 09:37 It’s categorically impossible to deny the fact that Floyd Mayweather Jr. is an “all-time-great”, because he faced countless world champions, as well as (arguably) twelve (future) Hall-of-Fame inductees or fighters good enough to at least be included in the nominees listed in the annual voting ballot, which includes the likes of:

• Arturo Gatti
• Oscar De La Hoya
• Juan Manuel Márquez
• Canelo
• Manny Pacquiao
• Genaro Hernández
• Jose Luis Castillo
• Diego Corrales
• Ricky Hatton
• Shane Mosley
• Miguel Cotto
• Zab Judah

Now let’s compare the opponents that I listed above to those that GGG faced that are similarly Hall-of-Fame calibre fighters?

Has GGG faced a similar amount of Hall-of-Famers to genuine all-time greats, such as: Sugar Ray Robinson; Harry Greb; Henry Armstrong; Joe Luis; Evander Holyfield; Manny Pacquiao; Sugar Ray Leonard; Roberto Duran; Jack Johnson etc?

Remember, the topic of this thread is to evaluate GGG’s worthiness of being considered as an “all-time-great”, not merely a “Hall-of-Famer”!!!

On a separate note: apart from David Lemieux and Daniel Geale, how many fighters that held any of the legitimate versions of the world middleweight championship has GGG actually beaten?

People won't answer these questions, because they're unable to do so honestly without undermining their own argument.

Now, how could be the argument above, be considered as an insult or even arrogance?

This dude Enlightened might be slightly deranged, using excessive question and exclamation marks, or vaguely hysterically-laughing emoticons, but I don't see any arrogance in his post above.

No one could even dream about not putting Mayweather Jr. in any top-10 p4p-all-time-great list, and putting GGG in any all-time-top-10-middleweight list: that's plain, even obvious common sense to me.

I personally believe that GGG is Hall-of-Fame worthy, but his resume isn’t good enough to grant him an honorary rite of passage to being considered as an “all-time-great”, because he hasn’t actually beaten any great fighters.

Put it this way, Herol ‘Bomber’ Graham would have almost certainly beaten every single fighter that GGG defeated throughout his career, had the Brit competed today, but instead he fought during a golden era for the sport where his 160lbs peers were all killers.

So why on earth are people granting Gennady Golovkin an honorary rite of passage to “all-time-greatness” based on world title victories over the likes of?

• Dominic Wade
• Willie Monroe Jr.
• Osumanu Adama
• Marco Antonio Rubio
• Curtis Stevens
• Nobuhiro Ishida
• Gabriel Rosado
• Grzegorz Proksa
• Makoto Fuchigami
• Lajuan Simon
• Kassim Ouma
• Kell Brook
• Vanes Martirosyan
• Nilson Julio Tapia
• Milton Nunez

Nearly every single one of these guys were not considered top-ten middleweights (based on ESPN’s and The RING’s divisional rankings) prior to their bouts against Gennady Golovkin and the vast majority of them were also former welterweights/light middleweights.

As the old adage goes, "talent" is useless unless it’s proven…. And "potential" is useless unless it’s fulfilled! This means that GGG should not be considered as being an “all-time-great”, based solely on what might have been had he faced better opponents!

On a separate note: apart from David Lemieux and Daniel Geale, how many fighters that held any of the legitimate versions of the world middleweight championship has GGG actually beaten?

How many Hall-of-Fame worthy fighters has GGG defeated?

I keep asking rather simple questions that people keep avoiding… and I’d like to know the reason why?

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 09:45

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 09:37 It’s categorically impossible to deny the fact that Floyd Mayweather Jr. is an “all-time-great”, because he faced countless world champions, as well as (arguably) twelve (future) Hall-of-Fame inductees or fighters good enough to at least be included in the nominees listed in the annual voting ballot, which includes the likes of:

• Arturo Gatti
• Oscar De La Hoya
• Juan Manuel Márquez
• Canelo
• Manny Pacquiao
• Genaro Hernández
• Jose Luis Castillo
• Diego Corrales
• Ricky Hatton
• Shane Mosley
• Miguel Cotto
• Zab Judah

Now let’s compare the opponents that I listed above to those that GGG faced that are similarly Hall-of-Fame calibre fighters?

Has GGG faced a similar amount of Hall-of-Famers to genuine all-time greats, such as: Sugar Ray Robinson; Harry Greb; Henry Armstrong; Joe Luis; Evander Holyfield; Manny Pacquiao; Sugar Ray Leonard; Roberto Duran; Jack Johnson etc?

Remember, the topic of this thread is to evaluate GGG’s worthiness of being considered as an “all-time-great”, not merely a “Hall-of-Famer”!!!

On a separate note: apart from David Lemieux and Daniel Geale, how many fighters that held any of the legitimate versions of the world middleweight championship has GGG actually beaten?

People won't answer these questions, because they're unable to do so honestly without undermining their own argument.

Now, how could be the argument above, be considered as an insult or even arrogance?

This dude Enlightened might be slightly deranged, using excessive question and exclamation marks, or vaguely hysterically-laughing emoticons, but I don't see any arrogance in his post above.

No one could even dream about not putting Mayweather Jr. in any top-10 p4p-all-time-great list, and putting GGG in any all-time-top-10-middleweight list: that's plain, even obvious common sense to me.

Son, are you a clone of EO/Fergus? After you answerd to me then at a short time EO started to reply.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 09:54

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 09:45

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 09:37 It’s categorically impossible to deny the fact that Floyd Mayweather Jr. is an “all-time-great”, because he faced countless world champions, as well as (arguably) twelve (future) Hall-of-Fame inductees or fighters good enough to at least be included in the nominees listed in the annual voting ballot, which includes the likes of:

• Arturo Gatti
• Oscar De La Hoya
• Juan Manuel Márquez
• Canelo
• Manny Pacquiao
• Genaro Hernández
• Jose Luis Castillo
• Diego Corrales
• Ricky Hatton
• Shane Mosley
• Miguel Cotto
• Zab Judah

Now let’s compare the opponents that I listed above to those that GGG faced that are similarly Hall-of-Fame calibre fighters?

Has GGG faced a similar amount of Hall-of-Famers to genuine all-time greats, such as: Sugar Ray Robinson; Harry Greb; Henry Armstrong; Joe Luis; Evander Holyfield; Manny Pacquiao; Sugar Ray Leonard; Roberto Duran; Jack Johnson etc?

Remember, the topic of this thread is to evaluate GGG’s worthiness of being considered as an “all-time-great”, not merely a “Hall-of-Famer”!!!

On a separate note: apart from David Lemieux and Daniel Geale, how many fighters that held any of the legitimate versions of the world middleweight championship has GGG actually beaten?

People won't answer these questions, because they're unable to do so honestly without undermining their own argument.

Now, how could be the argument above, be considered as an insult or even arrogance?

This dude Enlightened might be slightly deranged, using excessive question and exclamation marks, or vaguely hysterically-laughing emoticons, but I don't see any arrogance in his post above.

No one could even dream about not putting Mayweather Jr. in any top-10 p4p-all-time-great list, and putting GGG in any all-time-top-10-middleweight list: that's plain, even obvious common sense to me.

I personally believe that GGG is Hall-of-Fame worthy, but his resume isn’t good enough to grant him an honorary rite of passage to being considered as an “all-time-great”, because he hasn’t actually beaten any great fighters.

Put it this way, Herol ‘Bomber’ Graham would have almost certainly beaten every single fighter that GGG defeated throughout his career, had the Brit competed today, but instead he fought during a golden era for the sport where his 160lbs peers were all killers.

So why on earth are people granting Gennady Golovkin an honorary rite of passage to “all-time-greatness” based on world title victories over the likes of?

• Dominic Wade
• Willie Monroe Jr.
• Osumanu Adama
• Marco Antonio Rubio
• Curtis Stevens
• Nobuhiro Ishida
• Gabriel Rosado
• Grzegorz Proksa
• Makoto Fuchigami
• Lajuan Simon
• Kassim Ouma
• Kell Brook
• Vanes Martirosyan
• Nilson Julio Tapia
• Milton Nunez

Nearly every single one of these guys were not considered top-ten middleweights (based on ESPN’s and The RING’s divisional rankings) prior to their bouts against Gennady Golovkin and the vast majority of them were also former welterweights/light middleweights.

'At what I'm saying too. IBHoF might be a great honour, something like a boxers' version of the Ballon d'Or, but as much as the Ballon d'Or is biased about team-victories, rather than about athletes' single/solo performances/achievements, the IBHoF might be biased about the dominance a boxer has displayed in his own era: now, wether GGG will be inducted in the IBHoF or not, it's sure than GGG has a less-than-clean record, hasn't faced no Emile Griffith, etc....

GGG is far from being a Marciano, a Calzaghe, or a Mayweather Jr.

apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 10:05

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 09:45

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 09:37 It’s categorically impossible to deny the fact that Floyd Mayweather Jr. is an “all-time-great”, because he faced countless world champions, as well as (arguably) twelve (future) Hall-of-Fame inductees or fighters good enough to at least be included in the nominees listed in the annual voting ballot, which includes the likes of:

• Arturo Gatti
• Oscar De La Hoya
• Juan Manuel Márquez
• Canelo
• Manny Pacquiao
• Genaro Hernández
• Jose Luis Castillo
• Diego Corrales
• Ricky Hatton
• Shane Mosley
• Miguel Cotto
• Zab Judah

Now let’s compare the opponents that I listed above to those that GGG faced that are similarly Hall-of-Fame calibre fighters?

Has GGG faced a similar amount of Hall-of-Famers to genuine all-time greats, such as: Sugar Ray Robinson; Harry Greb; Henry Armstrong; Joe Luis; Evander Holyfield; Manny Pacquiao; Sugar Ray Leonard; Roberto Duran; Jack Johnson etc?

Remember, the topic of this thread is to evaluate GGG’s worthiness of being considered as an “all-time-great”, not merely a “Hall-of-Famer”!!!

On a separate note: apart from David Lemieux and Daniel Geale, how many fighters that held any of the legitimate versions of the world middleweight championship has GGG actually beaten?

People won't answer these questions, because they're unable to do so honestly without undermining their own argument.

Now, how could be the argument above, be considered as an insult or even arrogance?

This dude Enlightened might be slightly deranged, using excessive question and exclamation marks, or vaguely hysterically-laughing emoticons, but I don't see any arrogance in his post above.

No one could even dream about not putting Mayweather Jr. in any top-10 p4p-all-time-great list, and putting GGG in any all-time-top-10-middleweight list: that's plain, even obvious common sense to me.

Son, are you a clone of EO/Fergus? After you answerd to me then at a short time EO started to reply.

Yeah sure, dude: Paul McCartney is dead, they replaced him with some lookalike, and I'm none other than Charles Manson himself.

Nah just kidding, I merely have a classic Dissociative identity disorder, and I log in as different users: Jacopodb, Enlightened-One, apollo creed, and many others...

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 10:17

apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 10:05

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 09:45

Now, how could be the argument above, be considered as an insult or even arrogance?

This dude Enlightened might be slightly deranged, using excessive question and exclamation marks, or vaguely hysterically-laughing emoticons, but I don't see any arrogance in his post above.

No one could even dream about not putting Mayweather Jr. in any top-10 p4p-all-time-great list, and putting GGG in any all-time-top-10-middleweight list: that's plain, even obvious common sense to me.

Son, are you a clone of EO/Fergus? After you answerd to me then at a short time EO started to reply.

Yeah sure, dude: Paul McCartney is dead, they replaced him with some lookalike, and I'm none other than Charles Manson himself.

Nah just kidding, I merely have a classic Dissociative identity disorder, and I log in as different users: Jacopodb, Enlightened-One, apollo creed, and many others...

You try to mask the truth with a cheap irony. lol

Bye, bye EO's clone.

apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 09:06 GGG fought prime top fighters in his era. Same as Hagler, Monzon, SRL etc did it in their eras. So we should wait about 50 years to know how GGG would go down in the boxing history books.

That could be a valid argument nevertheless.

Even more valid if applied to Mayweather Jr.'s resume: Floyd has met top-notch serious all-time-great opposition, and in the Internet era, when any noob can come up to the surface like turds in the water, and get millions views, every crybaby around seem to be unable to shut his mouth/rest his fingers and disrespect Floyd's clean record and mastery continuously, while our cold-minded descendants might view the business in a different perspective: remains the fact that Floyd has beaten Canelo, who schooled even heavier GGG, no matter what they say.

Now my only concern here, is to keep my conversations as conversational as possible, so that if I ever write some bull crap, anyone might correct me without involving my family or so...

apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 10:50

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 10:17

apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 10:05

Son, are you a clone of EO/Fergus? After you answerd to me then at a short time EO started to reply.

Yeah sure, dude: Paul McCartney is dead, they replaced him with some lookalike, and I'm none other than Charles Manson himself.

Nah just kidding, I merely have a classic Dissociative identity disorder, and I log in as different users: Jacopodb, Enlightened-One, apollo creed, and many others...

You try to mask the truth with a cheap irony. lol

Bye, bye EO's clone.

Now, think about it: EO might just be an apollo creed's clone, dissing himself to enforce his own arguments and appear as the true, undisputed, Boxrec's forum hero... That's something to talk about.

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 10:59

apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 10:50

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 10:17

Yeah sure, dude: Paul McCartney is dead, they replaced him with some lookalike, and I'm none other than Charles Manson himself.

Nah just kidding, I merely have a classic Dissociative identity disorder, and I log in as different users: Jacopodb, Enlightened-One, apollo creed, and many others...

You try to mask the truth with a cheap irony. lol

Bye, bye EO's clone.

Now, think about it: EO might just be an apollo creed's clone, dissing himself to enforce his own arguments and appear as the true, undisputed, Boxrec's forum hero... That's something to talk about.

Forget about GGG and Floyd Jr.: we want the truth!

Moreover, apollo creed might have also created myself as another of his clones, to make his victory seem even more unquestionable.

Meditate, people, meditate...

Fergus/EO/Jacopodb - keep quoting yourself and denaturate the truth

apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 11:21 Fergus/EO/Jacopodb - keep quoting yourself and denaturate the truth

I might sue you for this.

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 11:06 Moreover, apollo creed might have also created myself as another of his clones, to make his victory seem even more unquestionable.

Meditate, people, meditate...

Don't twist it mr Fergus/EO/Jacopoord

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 11:26

apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 11:21 Fergus/EO/Jacopodb - keep quoting yourself and denaturate the truth

I might sue you for this.

Fergus/EO/Jacopornd = exposed; same old cave troll

Alright, I'm coming out: I'm a homosexual---sorry, I mean: I am apollo creed and EO.

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 10:57 remains the fact that Floyd has beaten Canelo, who schooled even heavier GGG, no matter what they say.

Slow down just a little.

However you scored the two Canelo/GGG fights (consensus seems to be that Golovkin should have been awarded at least a win and a draw), nobody got 'schooled'. Both fights were highly competitive, with both fighting on fairly even terms. Also, Canelo is the heavier fighter in the ring, not that it's relevant.

Floyd, despite beating Canelo, also did not fight anywhere near the version of Canelo that Golovkin fought twice. Today's Canelo stops any version of Floyd. Brutally. No shame in that. He's simply too big and too strong.

Obviously Floyd is leagues ahead of Golovkin, in terms of all-time status, but using their fights against Canelo as a benchmark is ludicrous.

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 09:45

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 09:37 It’s categorically impossible to deny the fact that Floyd Mayweather Jr. is an “all-time-great”, because he faced countless world champions, as well as (arguably) twelve (future) Hall-of-Fame inductees or fighters good enough to at least be included in the nominees listed in the annual voting ballot, which includes the likes of:

• Arturo Gatti
• Oscar De La Hoya
• Juan Manuel Márquez
• Canelo
• Manny Pacquiao
• Genaro Hernández
• Jose Luis Castillo
• Diego Corrales
• Ricky Hatton
• Shane Mosley
• Miguel Cotto
• Zab Judah

Now let’s compare the opponents that I listed above to those that GGG faced that are similarly Hall-of-Fame calibre fighters?

Has GGG faced a similar amount of Hall-of-Famers to genuine all-time greats, such as: Sugar Ray Robinson; Harry Greb; Henry Armstrong; Joe Luis; Evander Holyfield; Manny Pacquiao; Sugar Ray Leonard; Roberto Duran; Jack Johnson etc?

Remember, the topic of this thread is to evaluate GGG’s worthiness of being considered as an “all-time-great”, not merely a “Hall-of-Famer”!!!

On a separate note: apart from David Lemieux and Daniel Geale, how many fighters that held any of the legitimate versions of the world middleweight championship has GGG actually beaten?

People won't answer these questions, because they're unable to do so honestly without undermining their own argument.

Now, how could be the argument above, be considered as an insult or even arrogance?

This dude Enlightened might be slightly deranged, using excessive question and exclamation marks, or vaguely hysterically-laughing emoticons, but I don't see any arrogance in his post above.

No one could even dream about not putting Mayweather Jr. in any top-10 p4p-all-time-great list, and putting GGG in any all-time-top-10-middleweight list: that's plain, even obvious common sense to me.

Floyd Mayweather is definitely a top 5 ATG at WW. If he spent more time at previous weights, he could become a #1 ATG at those.

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 11:42 Alright, I'm coming out: I'm a homosexual---sorry, I mean: I am apollo creed and EO.

Calm down Fergus/EO and take your medicine

apollo creed wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 12:22

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 11:42 Alright, I'm coming out: I'm a homosexual---sorry, I mean: I am apollo creed and EO.

Calm down Fergus/EO and take your medicine

Touché.

EO/Fergus in 3, 2, 1

This thread is fvcking weird

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 13:14 This thread is fvcking weird

Can one of the MODS just close it....

Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 11:56

Jacopodb wrote: ↑27 Dec 2018, 10:57 remains the fact that Floyd has beaten Canelo, who schooled even heavier GGG, no matter what they say.

Slow down just a little.

However you scored the two Canelo/GGG fights (consensus seems to be that Golovkin should have been awarded at least a win and a draw), nobody got 'schooled'. Both fights were highly competitive, with both fighting on fairly even terms. Also, Canelo is the heavier fighter in the ring, not that it's relevant.

Floyd, despite beating Canelo, also did not fight anywhere near the version of Canelo that Golovkin fought twice. Today's Canelo stops any version of Floyd. Brutally. No shame in that. He's simply too big and too strong.

Obviously Floyd is leagues ahead of Golovkin, in terms of all-time status, but using their fights against Canelo as a benchmark is ludicrous.

Alright, that's logic: today's Canelo has bettered very much and he's at his own peak.
Perhaps, GGG has taken on the best version of Canelo so far, maybe the best shape Canelo could reach even considering the future, and that's going in GGG's pocket; anyway, Canelo, by the age of 23, was already a dangerous puncher, with a record almost like Floyd (42 vs 44), who had already beaten Mosley, Trout, dangerous Cintron, and other insidious fighters: a boy officially, but already a made-up professional.
You cannot blame Mayweather Jr. for not fighting Drederick Tatum, for example: Floyd doesn't have the structure to jump in the middleweights, but, he faced the equivalent of the Canelo that faced GGG, with the due proportions.
You cannot expect Floyd to go middleweight, but you can appreciate the fashion in which he beat Canelo, controlling the fight in every moment, despite Floyd's legendary brittle hands... Let's give Cesar what's Cesar's.

However, Canelo was heavier than Golovkin when they fought: now, putting up muscular mass isn't the best thing for a boxer: it encumbers your movements, in many ways: watch the usual "bodybuilder vs fighter" videos to get a grip on this.
I you watch carefully enough, you'd see that Canelo's bone-structure is considerably thinner than GGG's, so Canelo's skeleton basically can't support an important muscular mass without impeding his own movement, or worse, making his own joints snap like twigs (little digression: Ronaldo Nazario was pumped up to the absurd, putting up too much muscular mass for his skeleton to sustain, and his knee-ligament snapped like a crossbow, during a soccer match... He wasn't any faster after he put up all that muscular mass: now, he could have won some arm-wrestling match down at the pub, but that wasn't his main goal, professionally. End of digression.).

Props to 36-years-old GGG for fighting a peaking Canelo (if they fought in 2102, when GGG was still facing the likes of the big-in-Japan Makoto Fuchigami, and Canelo was already dealing with WBC top-notch superwelterweight contenders, probably GGG, mainly due to his still-shallow professional experience, would've taken a solid beating, even at middleweight, from prime Canelo): GGG is much like Mayweather Jr.: not eager to be slaughtered for a payday: then why Floyd is so much dissed when GGG is nut-hugged? Here's something else to talk about.
GGG is naturally heavier than Canelo, which is naturally heavier than Floyd Jr.: end of discussion.

So, bottom lines: don't worry too much about the official weight or muscular mass: watch the skeleton, instead; pay rather attention to both the opponents' wrist-size, and you'll get a clue about their natural complexion.