BoxRec

Caractacus wrote: ↑17 Jan 2020, 16:47

Wow! I never noticed this before. At 6:50 of the youtube, at the start of Round 2 you can see Quarry was clearly Butted !

Tony1244 wrote: ↑17 Jan 2020, 18:42

klompton wrote: ↑17 Jan 2020, 18:21

So your point is that simply being stopped in a certain round doesnt necessarily mean a fighters chin is suspect? Im glad you understood my point and that we agree. Now go find a film of Ken Norton flopping all over the ring after getting dropped by Harold Dutra and youll see why his chin was never considered anything more than suspect...

I rate Norton's chin as marginally better than Quarry's. Maybe a 7 to 7.5 respectively. When I think of a great HW chin I think of Ali, McCall, Chuvalo.

As PM Thatcher said it depends how a fighter got stopped. Quarry wasn't taking Ali's shots well a third of the way thru their fight in 1972 and Ali was never a 9 or 10 puncher, think we can all agree on that. Norton was stopped by Garcia, but that was one fight. After he got his sh!t together and read Power of Positive Thinking ) it took a very hard puncher to stop him in his prime, Foreman and Shavers.

To be honest, I never considered Norton as having anything close to a decent chin. Average at best, but that's just my opinion.

oogiebe wrote: ↑17 Jan 2020, 19:09

Tony1244 wrote: ↑17 Jan 2020, 18:42

I rate Norton's chin as marginally better than Quarry's. Maybe a 7 to 7.5 respectively. When I think of a great HW chin I think of Ali, McCall, Chuvalo.

As PM Thatcher said it depends how a fighter got stopped. Quarry wasn't taking Ali's shots well a third of the way thru their fight in 1972 and Ali was never a 9 or 10 puncher, think we can all agree on that. Norton was stopped by Garcia, but that was one fight. After he got his sh!t together and read Power of Positive Thinking ) it took a very hard puncher to stop him in his prime, Foreman and Shavers.

To be honest, I never considered Norton as having anything close to a decent chin. Average at best, but that's just my opinion.

In my very humble opinion I think Norton was too good to be average in any boxing category.

Larry Middleton,who fought both Jerry Quarry (May 1972)and Ken Norton(July 1976)
Larry Middelton later claimed that Jerry Quarry punched harder then Ken Norton.
(CBS-Sports Spectacular-with ringside commentery by Jerry Quarry !)
BTW at 2:30 of the clip Jerry Quarry is asked about when Ken Norton changed his style and Jerry Quarry says
"well he can contibute that to a fighter my brother was suppose to fight "Eddie (Bossman)Jones" .
anyone have any additional info on that ?"
according to Boxrec nether Norton or Mike Quarry had fought Eddie Jones
although eddie Jones was a sparring partner to Ken Norton . (but I don't think Ken Norton ever mentioned Eddie Jones in his autobiography)

This should clear up some of what he said.

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Jess ... ddie_Jones

This thread really shows that some people for whatever reason have a hard time accepting Quarry's very obvious limitations as a fighter.

He often gets pumped up like he's better than he was, like he would've been a dominant Champion in another era or something. No, he would've always been Quarry. A good fighter, that gets beat against the best fighters.

Quarry was certainly a courageous, gritty fighter, but his abilities are often exaggerated greatly by boxing heads for some reason.

I've seen a lot of his old fights. He was tough, but certainly not spectacular in any way.

klompton wrote: ↑17 Jan 2020, 18:21

Tony1244 wrote: ↑16 Jan 2020, 19:35

Foreman unquestionably had stamina issues. I never said Quarry had a glass jaw, but it wasn't as good as Bugners.

So your point is that simply being stopped in a certain round doesnt necessarily mean a fighters chin is suspect? Im glad you understood my point and that we agree. Now go find a film of Ken Norton flopping all over the ring after getting dropped by Harold Dutra and youll see why his chin was never considered anything more than suspect...

Kind of an insult to Quarry, as Jerry was hitting Norton with everything but the kitchen sink in rounds 2 and 3 and all Norton did was pull up his trunks.

The Dutra fight was the third fight of Norton's career. He had been a pro for less than three months. That is quite a stretch to think that is damning evidence against Norton.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑20 Jan 2020, 11:35 The Dutra fight was the third fight of Norton's career. He had been a pro for less than three months. That is quite a stretch to think that is damning evidence against Norton.

He hadn't developed a chin yet?

I'll throw Quarry proponents this bone, had Jerry and Norton fought in 1970 perhaps Jerry would have won. Even though Jerry was a year or 2 younger, he had a much earlier prime. Ken started late. At both their bests, I'd still go w/ Ken.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑20 Jan 2020, 11:35 The Dutra fight was the third fight of Norton's career. He had been a pro for less than three months. That is quite a stretch to think that is damning evidence against Norton.

Is there film of this? Not all knockdowns are alike. When you are just learning you are off balance and a light punch can knock you down without hurting you.

I have never seen it. Klompton implied that he had.

hhaehre wrote: ↑21 Jan 2020, 03:55

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑20 Jan 2020, 11:35 The Dutra fight was the third fight of Norton's career. He had been a pro for less than three months. That is quite a stretch to think that is damning evidence against Norton.

He hadn't developed a chin yet?

A fighter's ability to take a punch is not exactly the same throughout his career. To a certain extent, you get used to used to taking punches.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2020, 11:05

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑20 Jan 2020, 11:35 The Dutra fight was the third fight of Norton's career. He had been a pro for less than three months. That is quite a stretch to think that is damning evidence against Norton.

Is there film of this? Not all knockdowns are alike. When you are just learning you are off balance and a light punch can knock you down without hurting you.

Dutra had 11 KOs in 12 wins. Getting knocked down by him certainly is no worse than Ali getting KD by Sonny Banks.

Eddie Futch says in Norton's autobiography
that Norton came to the Hoover Street gym after he had 3 pro bouts under his belt.
Norton's original trainer there was Henry Davis
but in the Summer of 1968 Futch became Norton's trainer there.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2020, 12:25

Tony1244 wrote: ↑21 Jan 2020, 11:05

Is there film of this? Not all knockdowns are alike. When you are just learning you are off balance and a light punch can knock you down without hurting you.

Dutra had 11 KOs in 12 wins. Getting knocked down by him certainly is no worse than Ali getting KD by Sonny Banks.

The Banks knockdown is a perfect example of a flash knockdown. He was down for less than a second and wasn't the slightest bit hurt.
Don't know about Norton knockdown. However, again it was the 3rd fight of his career; so even if he was badly hurt it doesn't matter than much.

does anyone here have a listing of the sparring partners that Jerry Quarry had used over his career.?
Eddie"Bossman" Jones had been one at one point.