WHO HAVE WE GOT 2 CALL REAL QUALITY FIGHTERS .....THE TRUTH,

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 18 Apr 2008, 20:09

Spud wrote:Haye
Calzaghe
Hatton
Witter
Froch - He will be the one everyone talks about soon.

I have left out Clinton until I know what he is doing.

Well it depends on the definition... if by quality we mean "elite" champion - then Woods should not be included, irrespective of his return, no man who loses as comprehensively as Clinton did should be considered "elite".

Had this debate with Terry D regarding Gatti... Terry stressed that Gatti shouldn't be considered World class - but what Terry calls world class - I'd call elite.

Woods lies in world class.

For me we have 3 elite fighters - Joe, Haye, Hatton (was far more competitive vs Mayweather than Woods was vs Tarver).

We have 4 world class fighters - Witter (not proven enough against quality to move up to the next level yet IMO), Woods, Enzo Mac (especially given the Braithwaite result a couple of weeks back) and Froch.

macxwell66 · Post by **macxwell66** » 19 Apr 2008, 04:04

Loftgroov wrote:Haye, Hatton, Calzaghe, Froch, Khan....

still think some of the trainers/coaches let their `egos` overtake them..in as much as if a student wanted to experience other gyms training methods the trainers (SOME) SEE THIS AS DISLOYAL..an spit the dummy out....nuff respect to QUEENSBURY rules..but like most things in life..times/methods advance...understand that the basics are set in stone.. good defence.. correct stance..(can be modified)..to all you budding coaches,,this ones for free.. `COMBINATION..IS AN ACCUMILATION OF SINGLE PUNCHES` ..DEFENCE...YOU CANNOT ATTACK, WHEN YOUR FLAT ON YOUR BACK,..ETC

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 19 Apr 2008, 05:21

Chambers2 wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:David Haye, Joe Calzaghe, Junior Witter

I think Amir Khan will develop into an Elite level fighter
Forgot Frochy

And you call yourself a fan - go back to the Witter Nuthuggers Club!!!

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 19 Apr 2008, 09:52

Obviously losing to the man regarded as p4p number 1 in the world right now, clearly suggests you have no place among the "elite"

I would love to know what the criteria is for being an "elite" fighter.

Witter gets in according to some of you for knocking out Harris, who in turn got knocked spark out by Carlos Maussa who in turn got knocked spark out by whom again....?

If Ricky hatton is not an "elite" fighter, then there are only a handful of "elite" fighters in the game.

Elite fighter- someone who mixes in the top level of fighters, and more than holds his own(ie-actually wins the majority of fights at that level)
Woods, Haye, Hatton, Witter, Calzaghe are all elite fighters in my opinion.
Maccarenelli, Froch and Khan can all become elite fighters in my opinion.

macxwell66 · Post by **macxwell66** » 19 Apr 2008, 10:37

yiddo14 wrote:Obviously losing to the man regarded as p4p number 1 in the world right now, clearly suggests you have no place among the "elite"

I would love to know what the criteria is for being an "elite" fighter.

Witter gets in according to some of you for knocking out Harris, who in turn got knocked spark out by Carlos Maussa who in turn got knocked spark out by whom again....?

If Ricky hatton is not an "elite" fighter, then there are only a handful of "elite" fighters in the game.

Elite fighter- someone who mixes in the top level of fighters, and more than holds his own(ie-actually wins the majority of fights at that level)
Woods, Haye, Hatton, Witter, Calzaghe are all elite fighters in my opinion.
Maccarenelli, Froch and Khan can all become elite fighters in my opinion.

dont want to knock Hatton..early days he`imo`was well on his way to being classed as elite-ish...but like a few fighters past and present it seems that they realise that having a tear-up and leaving the general public feeling like they`ve seen a scrap,equates into massiveviewing figure,,more money....and more time they can forget the skills that actually give them more chance of WINNING against quality opponents.. Witter for me has a style that if executed correctly will give any fighter in the world a potential headache.. witters only problem is he`s not really commercially viable...imo imagine if he had a crowd??lets not get into a debate about those two tho ...plse

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 20 Apr 2008, 09:46

Calzage, Haye, Witter and Hatton in that order. Froch, still not sure, lets see how he gets on against Inkin. Khan far too early to tell, but doing pretty well at the moment. Froch and Khan could get into the list and lets hope they do because three of those names ( Calzaghe, Hatton and Witter) wont be around for too long now.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 20 Apr 2008, 10:01

yiddo14 wrote:
Elite fighter- someone who mixes in the top level of fighters, and more than holds his own(ie-actually wins the majority of fights at that level)

Hatton beat Kostya, ring-rusty, aged Kostya who had fought 3 rounds in about two years. Then he beat Castillo, impressively early but taking the Ngoudjo fight into account, not unexpected.

Then he was taken out in ten by Mayweather.

So if we call Castillo an elite fighter, then he is 2-1 at 'elite' level. I would say there is a very strong argument to call Hatton world class, but not elite in the same way that Mayweather, a prime Castillo, Mosley and so on, is elite

macxwell66 · Post by **macxwell66** » 20 Apr 2008, 10:08

MatthewS wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:
Elite fighter- someone who mixes in the top level of fighters, and more than holds his own(ie-actually wins the majority of fights at that level)
Hatton beat Kostya, ring-rusty, aged Kostya who had fought 3 rounds in about two years. Then he beat Castillo, impressively early but taking the Ngoudjo fight into account, not unexpected.

Then he was taken out in ten by Mayweather.

So if we call Castillo an elite fighter, then he is 2-1 at 'elite' level. I would say there is a very strong argument to call Hatton world class, but not elite in the same way that Mayweather, a prime Castillo, Mosley and so on, is elite

sounds about right..

macxwell66 · Post by **macxwell66** » 20 Apr 2008, 10:10

macxwell66 wrote:
MatthewS wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:
Elite fighter- someone who mixes in the top level of fighters, and more than holds his own(ie-actually wins the majority of fights at that level)
Hatton beat Kostya, ring-rusty, aged Kostya who had fought 3 rounds in about two years. Then he beat Castillo, impressively early but taking the Ngoudjo fight into account, not unexpected.

Then he was taken out in ten by Mayweather.

So if we call Castillo an elite fighter, then he is 2-1 at 'elite' level. I would say there is a very strong argument to call Hatton world class, but not elite in the same way that Mayweather, a prime Castillo, Mosley and so on, is elite
sounds about right..

castillo seemed like he wasnt that interested tho

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 20 Apr 2008, 10:13

Hatton was protected until KT, then trod water till Mayweather. Yes, he fought crafty/durable/powerful men, but his progression was not the same as a Mayweather, as a Tyson. This is elite level. Hatton is world class, and thats no bad thing, but there is a level above him, and you reach that as Yiddo said by beating world class and other elite fighters

macxwell66 · Post by **macxwell66** » 20 Apr 2008, 10:34

MatthewS wrote:Hatton was protected until KT, then trod water till Mayweather. Yes, he fought crafty/durable/powerful men, but his progression was not the same as a Mayweather, as a Tyson. This is elite level. Hatton is world class, and thats no bad thing, but there is a level above him, and you reach that as Yiddo said by beating world class and other elite fighters

cant really say anything new about RH,,its all been said..its up to him whether he wants credibility...wonder if mitchell will be brought on and taught the ins n outs of the trade..i reckon he could be alright..if he`s not too stuck in his ways..

JC · Post by JC » 20 Apr 2008, 10:45

yiddo14 wrote:Witter gets in according to some of you for knocking out Harris, who in turn got knocked spark out by Carlos Maussa who in turn got knocked spark out by whom again....?

Have to agree on that point, whatever your definition of an elite fighter there's no way you can justify having Witter as elite but Hatton not.

If Hatton's not done enough to be considered and "elite fighter" then Witter sure as hell hasn't.

macxwell66 · Post by **macxwell66** » 20 Apr 2008, 10:55

J-C wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:Witter gets in according to some of you for knocking out Harris, who in turn got knocked spark out by Carlos Maussa who in turn got knocked spark out by whom again....?
Have to agree on that point, whatever your definition of an elite fighter there's no way you can justify having Witter as elite but Hatton not.

If Hatton's not done enough to be considered and "elite fighter" then Witter sure as hell hasn't.

just wanted to know who we havewho couldchallenge/compete with the elite...hatton challenged mayweather..but did he REALLY compete..?witter prepared to compete but doesnt seem to get the opp to challenge...

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 20 Apr 2008, 11:38

I think in the next few years the only fighter that will be up there is Haye. Khan is not the new Hamed. Hopefully he wont end up becoming the new Hatton

JC · Post by JC » 20 Apr 2008, 11:40

macxwell66 wrote:
J-C wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:Witter gets in according to some of you for knocking out Harris, who in turn got knocked spark out by Carlos Maussa who in turn got knocked spark out by whom again....?
Have to agree on that point, whatever your definition of an elite fighter there's no way you can justify having Witter as elite but Hatton not.

If Hatton's not done enough to be considered and "elite fighter" then Witter sure as hell hasn't.
just wanted to know who we havewho couldchallenge/compete with the elite...hatton challenged mayweather..but did he REALLY compete..?witter prepared to compete but doesnt seem to get the opp to challenge...

Well Mayweather is clearly the number one fighter in the world. Diego Corrales beat top class fighters like Casamayor Fritas and Castillo, I’d say that puts him amongst the elite but he wasn’t very competitive with Mayweather either.

To understand the question better I'm interested to know what your criteria for "the elite" is?

I'd agree that bar maybe Calzaghe until he retires, none of the very top echelon of fighter are British.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 20 Apr 2008, 11:42

macxwell66 wrote:
J-C wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:Witter gets in according to some of you for knocking out Harris, who in turn got knocked spark out by Carlos Maussa who in turn got knocked spark out by whom again....?
Have to agree on that point, whatever your definition of an elite fighter there's no way you can justify having Witter as elite but Hatton not.

If Hatton's not done enough to be considered and "elite fighter" then Witter sure as hell hasn't.
just wanted to know who we havewho couldchallenge/compete with the elite...hatton challenged mayweather..but did he REALLY compete..?witter prepared to compete but doesnt seem to get the opp to challenge...

Think he was competitive enough. There was a difference between him vs Mayweather and say Tarver vs Woods.