Most "bad people" boxing has seen?

[Ruthless-RKO]

Gerald mcClellan deserves a mention,he used to tie dogs mouths up and let his pitbull attack and kill them

Any old articles or anything about this?

[oogiebe]

Mike Tyson - Rapist? Biting an ear?

(Sarcastically) Oh yeah...that one!

[oogiebe]

http://www.BS.com/carlos-baldo ... es--123765

Former world champion Carlos Baldomir will remain in custody in Santa Fe, Argentina while he is being investigated for the alleged crime of sexually abusing his daughter.

Anyone know of any others?

Carlos Monzon...what didn't he do?!

[Kalan]

Mike Tyson is just like the vast majority of felons that doggedly maintain their innocence rather than admit their guilt. I seem to recall more than 80% of criminals maintaining their innocence regardless the amount of insurmountable evidence against them.

I can’t remember where I read this, but I seem to think the percentage of those convicted of felonies that were subsequently deemed to be innocent, due to errors in their cases, was 5%, meaning there’s a 95% chance that Iron Mike actually rápéd Desiree Washington.

For sure, you can use your “faith” in a religious type manner to somehow declare Mike Tyson of being innocent of committing any wrongdoing and allege that his imprisonment was simply due to a miscarriage of justice, but you weren’t a member of the jury that worked on his trial, so your opinion on this matter is meaningless.

Like you, I’d personally prefer to “believe” that Tyson wasn’t a rápíst, because that’s a nicer situation than we’re faced with in reality, but then again, this would be like believing that other myths and legends were true, such as: fairies, the afterlife, reincarnation, the Loch Ness monster, Bigfoot etc

Mike Tyson was as innocent as Hurricane Carter... The was ZERO evidence that he raped Desiree Washington. Her plan seemed to be to extort money out of Tyson because she knew he was worth 10's of millions. In fact, members of Tyson’s jury now believe he’s innocent.

Top criminal lawyer, Alan Dershowitz, is on record saying Tyson is innocent and there is NO credible evidence he committed rape. Tyson had associates in the next room and all they heard was Washington's laughter, not any crying, screaming, or complaining. His lawyer didn't present that evidence. Three witnesses in the hotel lobby were ready to testify that Washington had her legs wrapped around Tyson and was kissing him passionately when they came into the hotel lobby. Her feet never hit the floor. The judge ruled those witnesses "prejudicial” and didn’t allow them. A judge’s biased rulings often steer a case to wrongful conviction.

In fact, it seems like Don King – who selected Tyson's lawyer, a guy who had never defended a criminal case in his life – was out to get Tyson and sold him out... Dershowitz said Tyson's lawyer presented a case that begged for conviction.. Don King possibly thought Tyson might spend a year in prison and be bigger than ever when he got out... It's not like Mike was from Nigeria and would spend a generation in prison for attacking a Sex Industry out-call girl. It’s well known by lawyers and judges that juries are bonkers. They go with their gut instincts and prejudices and not the evidence. The way to sway most juries is not through reason or scientific evidence many won’t understand (or go to sleep on you) but to appeal to their raw emotions.

Were you a member of the jury that attended the Tyson rápé trial or is your opinion solely based on the information conveyed by a documentary whose agenda was to present a summarised narrative intended to convey a sensationalised version of events rather than objectively recite in parrot-like fashion the countless amount of evidence that was actually presented during the trial?

You haven't mentioned any evidence that Mike was guilty, much less "countless" evidence...because there isn't any... I presented substantial evidence that Tyson was innocent... Which there are mountains of.

[oogiebe]

Mike Tyson was as innocent as Hurricane Carter... The was ZERO evidence that he raped Desiree Washington. Her plan seemed to be to extort money out of Tyson because she knew he was worth 10's of millions. In fact, members of Tyson’s jury now believe he’s innocent.

Top criminal lawyer, Alan Dershowitz, is on record saying Tyson is innocent and there is NO credible evidence he committed rape. Tyson had associates in the next room and all they heard was Washington's laughter, not any crying, screaming, or complaining. His lawyer didn't present that evidence. Three witnesses in the hotel lobby were ready to testify that Washington had her legs wrapped around Tyson and was kissing him passionately when they came into the hotel lobby. Her feet never hit the floor. The judge ruled those witnesses "prejudicial” and didn’t allow them. A judge’s biased rulings often steer a case to wrongful conviction.

In fact, it seems like Don King – who selected Tyson's lawyer, a guy who had never defended a criminal case in his life – was out to get Tyson and sold him out... Dershowitz said Tyson's lawyer presented a case that begged for conviction.. Don King possibly thought Tyson might spend a year in prison and be bigger than ever when he got out... It's not like Mike was from Nigeria and would spend a generation in prison for attacking a Sex Industry out-call girl. It’s well known by lawyers and judges that juries are bonkers. They go with their gut instincts and prejudices and not the evidence. The way to sway most juries is not through reason or scientific evidence many won’t understand (or go to sleep on you) but to appeal to their raw emotions.

Were you a member of the jury that attended the Tyson rápé trial or is your opinion solely based on the information conveyed by a documentary whose agenda was to present a summarised narrative intended to convey a sensationalised version of events rather than objectively recite in parrot-like fashion the countless amount of evidence that was actually presented during the trial?

You haven't mentioned any evidence that Mike was guilty, much less "countless" evidence...because there isn't any... I presented substantial evidence that Tyson was innocent... Which there are mountains of.

Not saying none of that happened, but I heard absolutely nothing about it, anywhere, anytime. Even from Tyson himself.

[Enlightened-One]

Mike Tyson was as innocent as Hurricane Carter... The was ZERO evidence that he raped Desiree Washington. Her plan seemed to be to extort money out of Tyson because she knew he was worth 10's of millions. In fact, members of Tyson’s jury now believe he’s innocent.

Top criminal lawyer, Alan Dershowitz, is on record saying Tyson is innocent and there is NO credible evidence he committed rape. Tyson had associates in the next room and all they heard was Washington's laughter, not any crying, screaming, or complaining. His lawyer didn't present that evidence. Three witnesses in the hotel lobby were ready to testify that Washington had her legs wrapped around Tyson and was kissing him passionately when they came into the hotel lobby. Her feet never hit the floor. The judge ruled those witnesses "prejudicial” and didn’t allow them. A judge’s biased rulings often steer a case to wrongful conviction.

In fact, it seems like Don King – who selected Tyson's lawyer, a guy who had never defended a criminal case in his life – was out to get Tyson and sold him out... Dershowitz said Tyson's lawyer presented a case that begged for conviction.. Don King possibly thought Tyson might spend a year in prison and be bigger than ever when he got out... It's not like Mike was from Nigeria and would spend a generation in prison for attacking a Sex Industry out-call girl. It’s well known by lawyers and judges that juries are bonkers. They go with their gut instincts and prejudices and not the evidence. The way to sway most juries is not through reason or scientific evidence many won’t understand (or go to sleep on you) but to appeal to their raw emotions.

Were you a member of the jury that attended the Tyson rápé trial or is your opinion solely based on the information conveyed by a documentary whose agenda was to present a summarised narrative intended to convey a sensationalised version of events rather than objectively recite in parrot-like fashion the countless amount of evidence that was actually presented during the trial?

You haven't mentioned any evidence that Mike was guilty, much less "countless" evidence...because there isn't any... I presented substantial evidence that Tyson was innocent... Which there are mountains of.

Why has it taken you more than two months to respond to this post?

I cannot provide you with evidence detailing the precise reasons why both the jurors and ultimately the American legal system deemed Mike Tyson as being guilty of râpê, since I wasn't a member of the jury and I did not attend the trail.

Unlike you, I won't pretend that some sort of "injustice" has occurred without possessing all the facts... and you won't get those from watching a documentary that was not only intentionally provocative, but it also failed to present both sides of the proverbial story in an objective manner.

[Ron C]

Ali was obnoxious and said stupid things. But we are all sometimes obnoxious and say stupid things, but most of us don't commit incest, arson, or kill or rape people.

I think if you read every post in this thread you'll see comparing Ali's insults to Frazier, which granted were nasty, pale in comparison to these other individual's antics.

Yet I've never said, that Ali's actions were equal to kill or rape, or smth of that kind. I've just said, that they weren't good, they crossed the line of common verbal pre-fight battle in case of Frazier.

Ali can't be responsible for Frazier's kid being picked on in school. Kids are picked on in school for all or any reasonI think calling Frazier ugly or stupid was normal banter. Ali admitted to picking that stuff up from wrestling.

But yes, I think Ali crossed the line with the race stuff. Ironically, Ali had lighter skin and loads of white friends, not to mention mostly white trainers.

So yes Ali was full of crap, but hardly a bad person.

Wasn’t it the other way around? I thought wrestling picked up its banter from Muhammad Ali

[TheGman]

Gerald mcClellan deserves a mention,he used to tie dogs mouths up and let his pitbull attack and kill them

Any old articles or anything about this?

http://www.espn.co.uk/espn/news/story?id=2904695

[oogiebe]

Yet I've never said, that Ali's actions were equal to kill or rape, or smth of that kind. I've just said, that they weren't good, they crossed the line of common verbal pre-fight battle in case of Frazier.

Ali can't be responsible for Frazier's kid being picked on in school. Kids are picked on in school for all or any reasonI think calling Frazier ugly or stupid was normal banter. Ali admitted to picking that stuff up from wrestling.

But yes, I think Ali crossed the line with the race stuff. Ironically, Ali had lighter skin and loads of white friends, not to mention mostly white trainers.

So yes Ali was full of crap, but hardly a bad person.

Wasn’t it the other way around? I thought wrestling picked up its banter from Muhammad Ali

I had heard Ali saw Gorgeous George in action and was so taken by the banter and showmanship, he took it on. Serious.

[jas80s]

Gerald mcClellan deserves a mention,he used to tie dogs mouths up and let his pitbull attack and kill them

Any old articles or anything about this?

I am sure they are out there....I can't possibly begin to feel the least bit bad for a guy who would do what he did. Something
by the way he never denied as far as I know. I can't read too much about the story, it turns my stomach.

Interesting finish to the story, however....For those who might choose to believe in some version of Karma.

[jas80s]

Gerald mcClellan deserves a mention,he used to tie dogs mouths up and let his pitbull attack and kill them

Any old articles or anything about this?

I am sure they are out there....I can't possibly begin to feel the least bit bad for a guy who would do what he did. Something
by the way he never denied as far as I know. I can't read too much about the story, it turns my stomach.

Interesting finish to the story, however....For those who might choose to believe in some version of Karma.

[jamamb]

ppl just need look up gerald mcclellan dog fighting, theres plenty on it

[oogiebe]

ppl just need look up gerald mcclellan dog fighting, theres plenty on it

So I found out! I never knew. I have no use for a slog like that.

[jas80s]

I saw an interview on youtube with Mclellan himself and others of course. They were talking about his condition (he is completely blind and 80 percent deaf). They were saying that he is almost perpetually in fear as he is so unsure of his surroundings and he naturally fears being abandoned in such a helpless condition.

Do you see this??

He is in perpetual fear as he is completely unsure of his surroundings, but he senses danger no doubt as he is virtually helpless while these vicious, unrelenting conditions ravage his mind day after day. The irony of the metaphor is chilling.

Yet, I'm still not close to feeling bad for him, personally. I suppose I just like animals more than people.

[jamamb]

yep, sadistic pos had the tables turned on him

[Tony1244]

Yet I've never said, that Ali's actions were equal to kill or rape, or smth of that kind. I've just said, that they weren't good, they crossed the line of common verbal pre-fight battle in case of Frazier.

Ali can't be responsible for Frazier's kid being picked on in school. Kids are picked on in school for all or any reasonI think calling Frazier ugly or stupid was normal banter. Ali admitted to picking that stuff up from wrestling.

But yes, I think Ali crossed the line with the race stuff. Ironically, Ali had lighter skin and loads of white friends, not to mention mostly white trainers.

So yes Ali was full of crap, but hardly a bad person.

Wasn’t it the other way around? I thought wrestling picked up its banter from Muhammad Ali

Ali definitely said he picked some stuff up from G. George. But it goes both ways. Dusty Rhodes, SS Bill Graham and others did mimic Ali.

[oogiebe]

Don King: Manslaughter. (how he got off murder charges is beyond me)

[Kalan]

Cuz he meant to give the man a terrible beating -- and in his enthusiasm to beat tamales out of him, killed him.

The guy still owned Don money... So he didn't mean to kill him... But sometimes when you're beating a guy horribly you think... "Damn he's in a bad way... If he recovers he'll finger me for great bodily harm... I better finish him."

[oogiebe]

Anybody mention one of the most tragic and despicable? Resto and Lewis.

[Kalan]

Ali can't be responsible for Frazier's kid being picked on in school. Kids are picked on in school for all or any reasonI think calling Frazier ugly or stupid was normal banter. Ali admitted to picking that stuff up from wrestling.

But yes, I think Ali crossed the line with the race stuff. Ironically, Ali had lighter skin and loads of white friends, not to mention mostly white trainers.

So yes Ali was full of crap, but hardly a bad person.

Wasn’t it the other way around? I thought wrestling picked up its banter from Muhammad Ali

Ali definitely said he picked some stuff up from G. George. But it goes both ways. Dusty Rhodes, SS Bill Graham and others did mimic Ali.

Wrestling was using trash talk for generations before Ali came along... Ali was the imitator and Gorgeous George was his role model... 50% of wresting is trash talk... The bad guys were always despicable braggarts who claimed to be the greatest and best in the world and will destroy their opponents.. George drew massive crowds.. The good guys were always modest and talked mother, country, and apple pie - but would fearlessly condemn the "villain" and would usually beat him.. When the villain won it was always by hook and crook.. Most all the fans were on to the scam, but loved the act anyway.. When I saw my first pro wrestling match at about 6 yrs old I soon realized it was all fakery.

But I've been stunned by some adults I met in those days who thought rasslin' was real... When I was a teenager I worked for UPS and my boss thought wrestling was for real... He talked about how dirty the villain was and how smart and slick the hero was... I would say, "John, It's all fake man. The winners are determined before hand." ... He'd say "I know some of it is fake, but Buddy isn't fake." I would shake my head in disbelief and walk away.. He seemed to be a half intelligent person.

But Ali appeared on a radio program and George was also being interviewed... In the 50's and 60's the results of wrestling were written up in the sports section of your local paper believe it or not... Ali talked politely to the interviewer, but George Lambasted the interviewer and his opponent for that evening....promising to wreck his career so he'd never wrestle again and calling himself the greatest wrestler of all time.. Ali got so mad at George he showed up himself and the place was packed.. At least that's Ali's story.. That's how he knew running your mouth is magic.

[oogiebe]

I saw an interview on youtube with Mclellan himself and others of course. They were talking about his condition (he is completely blind and 80 percent deaf). They were saying that he is almost perpetually in fear as he is so unsure of his surroundings and he naturally fears being abandoned in such a helpless condition.

Do you see this??

He is in perpetual fear as he is completely unsure of his surroundings, but he senses danger no doubt as he is virtually helpless while these vicious, unrelenting conditions ravage his mind day after day. The irony of the metaphor is chilling.

Yet, I'm still not close to feeling bad for him, personally. I suppose I just like animals more than people.

That was a chilling metaphor, BTW...

[Tony1244]

Wasn’t it the other way around? I thought wrestling picked up its banter from Muhammad Ali

Ali definitely said he picked some stuff up from G. George. But it goes both ways. Dusty Rhodes, SS Bill Graham and others did mimic Ali.

Wrestling was using trash talk for generations before Ali came along... Ali was the imitator and Gorgeous George was his role model... 50% of wresting is trash talk... The bad guys were always despicable braggarts who claimed to be the greatest and best in the world and will destroy their opponents.. George drew massive crowds.. The good guys were always modest and talked mother, country, and apple pie - but would fearlessly condemn the "villain" and would usually beat him.. When the villain won it was always by hook and crook.. Most all the fans were on to the scam, but loved the act anyway.. When I saw my first pro wrestling match at about 6 yrs old I soon realized it was all fakery.

But I've been stunned by some adults I met in those days who thought rasslin' was real... When I was a teenager I worked for UPS and my boss thought wrestling was for real... He talked about how dirty the villain was and how smart and slick the hero was... I would say, "John, It's all fake man. The winners are determined before hand." ... He'd say "I know some of it is fake, but Buddy isn't fake." I would shake my head in disbelief and walk away.. He seemed to be a half intelligent person.

But Ali appeared on a radio program and George was also being interviewed... In the 50's and 60's the results of wrestling were written up in the sports section of your local paper believe it or not... Ali talked politely to the interviewer, but George Lambasted the interviewer and his opponent for that evening....promising to wreck his career so he'd never wrestle again and calling himself the greatest wrestler of all time.. Ali got so mad at George he showed up himself and the place was packed.. At least that's Ali's story.. That's how he knew running your mouth is magic.

SS Graham and Rhodes publicly stated that they mimicked Ali, so that road goes both ways.


Not sure if your "Buddy isn't fake," is a Buddy Rogers reference. The fighting ability of a Buddy Rogers or Danny Hodge is real. My friend's Dad said something interesting. He said the main events are all fake but the preliminaries are partly real. I was scratching my head at the time, but after reading a lot on wrestling, they use to test the newbies and those matches up until the 1970s were partially real. Yes the eye gouge was fake, but the elbow smash to the face was a real elbow smash.

BTW, The Miami Herald and Palm Beach Post listed wrestling results until at least the late 1970s.

[Awesom-O]

Jo-el Scott
Tony Ayala
Carlos monzon
Jake lamotta
Reggie gross

[Awesom-O]

Convicted but i dont think he raped anyone,americas justice system has previous so id go with not guilty on that front.

Mike Tyson is just like the vast majority of felons that doggedly maintain their innocence rather than admit their guilt. I seem to recall more than 80% of criminals maintaining their innocence regardless the amount of insurmountable evidence against them.

I can’t remember where I read this, but I seem to think the percentage of those convicted of felonies that were subsequently deemed to be innocent, due to errors in their cases, was 5%, meaning there’s a 95% chance that Iron Mike actually rápéd Desiree Washington.

For sure, you can use your “faith” in a religious type manner to somehow declare Mike Tyson of being innocent of committing any wrongdoing and allege that his imprisonment was simply due to a miscarriage of justice, but you weren’t a member of the jury that worked on his trial, so your opinion on this matter is meaningless.

Like you, I’d personally prefer to “believe” that Tyson wasn’t a rápíst, because that’s a nicer situation than we’re faced with in reality, but then again, this would be like believing that other myths and legends were true, such as: fairies, the afterlife, reincarnation, the Loch Ness monster, Bigfoot etc

Mike Tyson was as innocent as Hurricane Carter... The was ZERO evidence that he raped Desiree Washington. Her plan seemed to be to extort money out of Tyson because she knew he was worth 10's of millions. In fact, members of Tyson’s jury now believe he’s innocent.

Top criminal lawyer, Alan Dershowitz, is on record saying Tyson is innocent and there is NO credible evidence he committed rape. Tyson had associates in the next room and all they heard was Washington's laughter, not any crying, screaming, or complaining. His lawyer didn't present that evidence. Three witnesses in the hotel lobby were ready to testify that Washington had her legs wrapped around Tyson and was kissing him passionately when they came into the hotel lobby. Her feet never hit the floor. The judge ruled those witnesses "prejudicial” and didn’t allow them. A judge’s biased rulings often steer a case to wrongful conviction.

In fact, it seems like Don King – who selected Tyson's lawyer, a guy who had never defended a criminal case in his life – was out to get Tyson and sold him out... Dershowitz said Tyson's lawyer presented a case that begged for conviction.. Don King possibly thought Tyson might spend a year in prison and be bigger than ever when he got out... It's not like Mike was from Nigeria and would spend a generation in prison for attacking a Sex Industry out-call girl.

It’s well known by lawyers and judges that juries are bonkers. They go with their gut instincts and prejudices and not the evidence. The way to sway most juries is not through reason or scientific evidence many won’t understand (or go to sleep on you) but to appeal to their raw emotions... In this case Tyson's lawyer said Washington should have known Tyson was dangerous because his reputation as a womanizer preceded him... He basically said, "she was asking for trouble when she messed with Mike." Dershowitz said, "He might as well have said, "convict this SOB of rape." " .... In many convictions that are overturned after up to 30 years, the defendant's lawyer seemed to be working with the prosecution.

I don’t know if Tyson is a rapist or not, I hope not, but this talk about how his lawyer was only a tax lawyer is and not a criminal lawyer is a myth and really inaccurate.

Vincent Fuller was a highly successful criminal lawyer. He had successfully defended Don king on tax charges and did tax but also did criminal cases. He defended John Hinckley when he tried to kill Ronald Reagan, and got him sent to a mental institution instead of a prison.

Fuller did such a good job defending Hinckley that America changed their laws regarding insanity verdicts. It was one of the biggest successes any criminal lawyer has had, his client shot the President of all people! Hinckley recently got out.

[Thomastearns]

Regarding the behaviour of Muhammad Ali the inescapable impression I get after reading the recent Jonathan Eig bio is that he was just a big kid. A lovable, witty, charming kid. He enjoyed being the centre of attention almost from birth and didn't care much for the ways of the world. Money seemed to be just a tool to keep attention and keep people around him happy. His need for company was even greater than his need to find a replacement father figure and a sense of belonging.

Even his enemies and ex-wives had little bad to say about him because he was so much fun and everything he said seemed child-like. Some people went to extraordinary lengths to help him as others did to exploit him.

Ultimately he came to regret the harm some of his words might have caused and no one can escape the impression that although he remained an enigma to all he didn't have a bad bone in his body.