The 5 Fights you wish would've gone different

[gilgamesh]

Norton 3 was not close. Ken CLEARLY won that fight.

10 rounds to 5 is how I see it. 9 rounds to 6 is still a crystal clear victory....and anything closer than that...just no.

Hey Ken, I thought you passed away. I haven't watched it in a long time but I remember 3 non official judges including Frazier scored it a draw. At the time I had it close to that. Can't remember exactly what I scored it to tell you the truth. Norton certainly landed the harder punches, but Ali landed a lot of junk jabs.

Ken Norton won the fight. That's all there is to it.

[Tony1244]

Hey Ken, I thought you passed away. I haven't watched it in a long time but I remember 3 non official judges including Frazier scored it a draw. At the time I had it close to that. Can't remember exactly what I scored it to tell you the truth. Norton certainly landed the harder punches, but Ali landed a lot of junk jabs.

Ken Norton won the fight. That's all there is to it.

If I get around to watching it again, I'll let you know what I think. I remember Angelo asking people to watch it with no sound.

[gilgamesh]

Ken Norton won the fight. That's all there is to it.

If I get around to watching it again, I'll let you know what I think. I remember Angelo asking people to watch it with no sound.

I know what I saw the 1st time. I'm sure he would've preferred people watch it without the sound, because then you're just counting punches, instead of HEARING the impact of Ken's harder shots.

Ken won.

[Tony1244]

If I get around to watching it again, I'll let you know what I think. I remember Angelo asking people to watch it with no sound.

I know what I saw the 1st time. I'm sure he would've preferred people watch it without the sound, because then you're just counting punches, instead of HEARING the impact of Ken's harder shots.

Ken won.

The below definitely bears what what you are saying and it didn't take me 45 minutes.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/alinorton- ... 1379644501

[Evander]

Marvin Hagler v Thomas Hearns
Big Thomas Hearns fan me, obviously like Marvin too but Tommy was my guy.
Upside was one of the best fights ever.

Paul Williams v Erislandy Lara
A total rip off for Lara, I felt so bad for the guy not to get the decision.

Antonio Margarito v Miguel Cotto 1
We all know the antics of Margarito by now and I doubt any of us would have been surprised if he did the same against Cotto in the first fight.

Pernell Whitaker v Julio Cesar Chavez
You know, one of the worst decisions in such a high profile fight, made our sport look so bad on the big stage.

Steve Cruz v Barry McGuigan
Have no problem with the Cruz win, but watching Barry struggling in the heat for 15 rounds against a guy he would normally beat was heartbreaking.
At one point in the corner didn't Barry say "Say a prayer for me".

[Ilya Muromets]

Well that doesn't make any sense at all. In fact the exact opposite is the case, especially since Angelo Dundee admitted what he did. Still I wouldn't say anything as silly as "all their other opinions lose instant credibility". At any rate, end of discussion. The other guy is right, this thread has gone off on a tangent.

Ali haters who try to poke holes in every one of his fights come across as f*cking idiots.

He wasn't unbeatable, but he wasn't some sh*t fighter either.

You probably think he deserved to lose the decision against Rudi Lubbers too right?

"Haters"? "Every one of his fights"? "Fg idiots"? Rudi Lubbers?

Some of these otherwise more or less normal sounding posters seem to become hysterical if you pose valid questions about their Ali demigod!

[Ilya Muromets]

I haven't seen it in a very long time but most say Young beat him. Same with Doug Jones. Henry Cooper 1 was blatant cheating by his corner who cut his glove open to gain him extra time between rounds when he was out on his feet. Liston took two dives. Even journeyman Alonzo Johnson beat him - and now they've cut out the post fight comments of the commentators who were saying "I don't believe it they gave it to Clay!" Same with Cooper 1, when ESPN classic replayed it they spliced the rounds together and said not one word about Angelo Dundee's monkey business as tho it never happened. George Foreman he beat by getting the ring ropes fixed. He even fixed the wrestler vs. boxer thing with Antonio Inoki. What am I leaving off? That makes how many so far, 20 or something!

Ali would have beaten Cooper anyway. He certainly did in the rematch. I've watched that first fight many times and Ali recovered quickly. He got an extra minute, but I believe he would have won without the extra time as well. He got up quickly and got up again in between the round to test his legs.

I didn't even think Ali-Jones was close. Alonzo Johnson beat him? In checkers?

Norton 2 and 3 and Young were close. Those decisions bother me less than the constant holding Ali got away with against Frazier and Foreman.

"Ali, still the young and learning Cassius Clay, won on that occasion too, but a lot of ringsiders believed he didn’t. This clearly rankled with him. Some time later he would say, “After the Doug Jones fight people who thought Jones should have had the decision got so mad they didn’t know what to do. They were booing and screaming and trying to get at me as I walked out of the ring. So I just yelled right back at them to shut up or I’d beat their ears off.”

In fairness, the winner of that famous 1963 fight was in the eye of the beholder. Did Clay do enough? Could Jones have done more? The hugely divided opinion told the story. The Associated Press scored the fight 5-4-1 for Jones. United Press International saw it 6-3-1 for Clay."

http://www.boxing.com/doug_jones_the_ma ... _clay.html

[MasterG]

I would have liked to see Mike Tyson beat James Douglas. As Mike was the best heavyweight in history It would have been nice to see him beat the padded record of Rocky Marciano.

Tyson if handled correctly he would have beaten that record and added some to it.

Interesting take considering he never came particularly close to Marciano's record, and would've lost to Holyfield ANY time they ever fought.

The only reason Mike Tyson didnt get there is because of his handlers and how he conducted his life. Mike was only 13 fights away from getting to Marciano's record but was well passed his best when he met Douglas. After Douglas he beat another 8 before meeting Holyfield in 1996 and was a shell of his former self, but was still good enough to rack up wins fighting the likes of Botha and Norris level fighters. It would have been interesting to have seen Holyfield jump up to heavyweight in 1998 time when he was Cruiserweight champion as often boxers do and challenge for titles without even having a fight at the higher weight before challenging for the title. I think the Tyson who beat Spinks in 88 would have stopped Holyfield. The 2 met when Mike was well passed his best and Holyfield was top of his game. Yes handled correctly Tyson would have done it. He was the best heavyweight in our generation. I dont buy he couldnt have beaten the yesteryear boxers such as Ali etc.


While im spinning Herol Graham v Julian Jackson was another fight I wish had gone differently. Jackson was a fearsome puncher but Graham had him sussed.

[tiny_acres]

Interesting take considering he never came particularly close to Marciano's record, and would've lost to Holyfield ANY time they ever fought.

The only reason Mike Tyson didnt get there is because of his handlers and how he conducted his life. Mike was only 13 fights away from getting to Marciano's record but was well passed his best when he met Douglas. After Douglas he beat another 8 before meeting Holyfield in 1996 and was a shell of his former self, but was still good enough to rack up wins fighting the likes of Botha and Norris level fighters. It would have been interesting to have seen Holyfield jump up to heavyweight in 1998 time when he was Cruiserweight champion as often boxers do and challenge for titles without even having a fight at the higher weight before challenging for the title. I think the Tyson who beat Spinks in 88 would have stopped Holyfield. The 2 met when Mike was well passed his best and Holyfield was top of his game. Yes handled correctly Tyson would have done it. He was the best heavyweight in our generation. I dont buy he couldnt have beaten the yesteryear boxers such as Ali etc.


While im spinning Herol Graham v Julian Jackson was another fight I wish had gone differently. Jackson was a fearsome puncher but Graham had him sussed.

The what it's of Tyson's career.
No fighter has had more fans make excuses for his short comings.
Yes he was awesome but not close the the fighter some fans think.
Not the greatest sorry

[Onetimeonly]

Lol at Tyson facing prime holyfield.

[gilgamesh]

Ali haters who try to poke holes in every one of his fights come across as f*cking idiots.

He wasn't unbeatable, but he wasn't some sh*t fighter either.

You probably think he deserved to lose the decision against Rudi Lubbers too right?

"Haters"? "Every one of his fights"? "Fg idiots"? Rudi Lubbers?

Some of these otherwise more or less normal sounding posters seem to become hysterical if you pose valid questions about their Ali demigod!

Ali is not one of my 100 favorite fighters.

I just prefer facts to fiction.

The Rudi Lubbers comment was about a previous poster we had here who literally tried to pretend Ali should've lost practically ever fight he ever had. Even Rudi Lubbers...and you're reminding me of that dumbass with your comments.

[MasterG]

"Haters"? "Every one of his fights"? "Fg idiots"? Rudi Lubbers?

Some of these otherwise more or less normal sounding posters seem to become hysterical if you pose valid questions about their Ali demigod!

Ali is not one of my 100 favorite fighters.

I just prefer facts to fiction.

The Rudi Lubbers comment was about a previous poster we had here who literally tried to pretend Ali should've lost practically ever fight he ever had. Even Rudi Lubbers...and you're reminding me of that dumbass with your comments.

Henry Cooper knocked out a 13 stone Ali (not in the boxing records though) Can you imagine what a 15 stone Tyson would have done? I know Mike always said he couldnt beat Ali but that was a respectful thing to say and im sure at the time most boxers would have said the same thing.

[gilgamesh]

Interesting take considering he never came particularly close to Marciano's record, and would've lost to Holyfield ANY time they ever fought.

The only reason Mike Tyson didnt get there is because of his handlers and how he conducted his life. Mike was only 13 fights away from getting to Marciano's record but was well passed his best when he met Douglas. After Douglas he beat another 8 before meeting Holyfield in 1996 and was a shell of his former self, but was still good enough to rack up wins fighting the likes of Botha and Norris level fighters. It would have been interesting to have seen Holyfield jump up to heavyweight in 1998 time when he was Cruiserweight champion as often boxers do and challenge for titles without even having a fight at the higher weight before challenging for the title. I think the Tyson who beat Spinks in 88 would have stopped Holyfield. The 2 met when Mike was well passed his best and Holyfield was top of his game. Yes handled correctly Tyson would have done it. He was the best heavyweight in our generation. I dont buy he couldnt have beaten the yesteryear boxers such as Ali etc.


While im spinning Herol Graham v Julian Jackson was another fight I wish had gone differently. Jackson was a fearsome puncher but Graham had him sussed.

Well past his best when he met Douglas....dude he was like 22 or 23 years old.

He would've never beaten Marciano's record because he didn't have the discipline to do it. Handling YOURSELF outside the ring is part of what makes a fighter's greatness. Since Mike needed people to take care of him outside the ring. He was never gonna reach Marciano's number without getting beat. He simply wasn't man enough to keep doing the things he needed to do to stay on top.

Whether or not Tyson could've beaten Ali doesn't matter. (he couldn't have by the way)

There are quite a few guys in his own era that I don't really imagine he'd have gotten past. I figure Riddick Bowe in 1992 or 1993 would've been more than he could handle as well.

And Holyfield would've beat his ass in 1989, 1990, 1991...and every year in between except for maybe the time he was having heart problems or whatever.

But then he DID beat him in 1996, and again in 1997 .

Oh and please tell me how the younger Mike Tyson was past his best, but Holyfield who had recently had major medical issues a few years prior was in his Prime.

[gilgamesh]

Ali is not one of my 100 favorite fighters.

I just prefer facts to fiction.

The Rudi Lubbers comment was about a previous poster we had here who literally tried to pretend Ali should've lost practically ever fight he ever had. Even Rudi Lubbers...and you're reminding me of that dumbass with your comments.

Henry Cooper knocked out a 13 stone Ali (not in the boxing records though) Can you imagine what a 15 stone Tyson would have done? I know Mike always said he couldnt beat Ali but that was a respectful thing to say and im sure at the time most boxers would have said the same thing.

Difference between knocked out and knocked down. Cooper knocked down Ali. Trying to pretend he did anything more than that makes you look like an imbecile. Cooper himself never claimed he should've WON the fight.

[MasterG]

Henry Cooper knocked out a 13 stone Ali (not in the boxing records though) Can you imagine what a 15 stone Tyson would have done? I know Mike always said he couldnt beat Ali but that was a respectful thing to say and im sure at the time most boxers would have said the same thing.

Difference between knocked out and knocked down. Cooper knocked down Ali. Trying to pretend he did anything more than that makes you look like an imbecile. Cooper himself never claimed he should've WON the fight.

And I thought we were mates Gilg!!

[gilgamesh]

Difference between knocked out and knocked down. Cooper knocked down Ali. Trying to pretend he did anything more than that makes you look like an imbecile. Cooper himself never claimed he should've WON the fight.

And I thought we were mates Gilg!!

I don't go along with nonsense no matter who says it.

[Tony1244]

And I thought we were mates Gilg!!

I don't go along with nonsense no matter who says it.

When I find the "discipline" I'll watch Ali-Norton 3 again to see if I think it was close or an easy Norton victory. Those are the 2 camps on that fight.

A lot of people don't like Ali's religious turn, the boasting, the Vietnam thing, but like I said, when someone says the Cooper fight should have been overturned, all credibility is lost. Ali was in much better shape from the KD than say Holmes was after the KD from Shavers.

Some idiot in a another forum said Sam Peter is better than Ali.

[Tony1244]

Ali is not one of my 100 favorite fighters.

I just prefer facts to fiction.

The Rudi Lubbers comment was about a previous poster we had here who literally tried to pretend Ali should've lost practically ever fight he ever had. Even Rudi Lubbers...and you're reminding me of that dumbass with your comments.

Henry Cooper knocked out a 13 stone Ali (not in the boxing records though) Can you imagine what a 15 stone Tyson would have done? I know Mike always said he couldnt beat Ali but that was a respectful thing to say and im sure at the time most boxers would have said the same thing.

It's not in the books because it was a dream of yours.

Why stop there? Why not say Quarry, Chuvalo, and Evangelista beat Ali too? You'd sound no more ridiculous than you already sound. Stupid would be a better word, but I'm in a good mood.

[gilgamesh]

I don't go along with nonsense no matter who says it.

When I find the "discipline" I'll watch Ali-Norton 3 again to see if I think it was close or an easy Norton victory. Those are the 2 camps on that fight.

A lot of people don't like Ali's religious turn, the boasting, the Vietnam thing, but like I said, when someone says the Cooper fight should have been overturned, all credibility is lost. Ali was in much better shape from the KD than say Holmes was after the KD from Shavers.

Some idiot in a another forum said Sam Peter is better than Ali.

Ya know what? I think I'm gonna have to admit that Sam Peter has the better double punch smash to the back of the head than Ali.

Ali's got him beat though on Stamina, Ring IQ, Speed, Athleticism, Skill, punch variety...it might be a wash as far as their ability to take a punch, but Ali would take a lot less of them so he'd do better.

Peter was never weak chinned exactly, his knockouts came just as a result of being too damn slow to get out of the way of bomb after bomb.

[Tony1244]

When I find the "discipline" I'll watch Ali-Norton 3 again to see if I think it was close or an easy Norton victory. Those are the 2 camps on that fight.

A lot of people don't like Ali's religious turn, the boasting, the Vietnam thing, but like I said, when someone says the Cooper fight should have been overturned, all credibility is lost. Ali was in much better shape from the KD than say Holmes was after the KD from Shavers.

Some idiot in a another forum said Sam Peter is better than Ali.

Ya know what? I think I'm gonna have to admit that Sam Peter has the better double punch smash to the back of the head than Ali.

Ali's got him beat though on Stamina, Ring IQ, Speed, Athleticism, Skill, punch variety...it might be a wash as far as their ability to take a punch, but Ali would take a lot less of them so he'd do better.

Peter was never weak chinned exactly, his knockouts came just as a result of being too damn slow to get out of the way of bomb after bomb.

Yeah, I could see SP going the distance with Ali, but so did the great Rudi Lubbers.

I'm glad there's film of Ali-Cooper. I've read variations of Cooper knocking Ali thru the ropes etc.

[gilgamesh]

Ya know what? I think I'm gonna have to admit that Sam Peter has the better double punch smash to the back of the head than Ali.

Ali's got him beat though on Stamina, Ring IQ, Speed, Athleticism, Skill, punch variety...it might be a wash as far as their ability to take a punch, but Ali would take a lot less of them so he'd do better.

Peter was never weak chinned exactly, his knockouts came just as a result of being too damn slow to get out of the way of bomb after bomb.

Yeah, I could see SP going the distance with Ali, but so did the great Rudi Lubbers.

I'm glad there's film of Ali-Cooper. I've read variations of Cooper knocking Ali thru the ropes etc.

The mythologizing fans are hilarious sometimes.

I just do this every time I hear somebody say Mike Tyson was past his prime against Buster Douglas. I mean if he was past his prime against Buster by that logic, he should've died of old age at 41

Piss poor training camp, and lack of discipline is just that. He was at the age where he could've and should've been as good as he ever was. The fact that he wasn't was due to the bolded, and nothing more. I mean hell he looked better in his fights in 1991 for instance so he suddenly snapped out of it, and was prime again for a while? Come on.

[Tony1244]

Yeah, I could see SP going the distance with Ali, but so did the great Rudi Lubbers.

I'm glad there's film of Ali-Cooper. I've read variations of Cooper knocking Ali thru the ropes etc.

The mythologizing fans are hilarious sometimes.

I just do this every time I hear somebody say Mike Tyson was past his prime against Buster Douglas. I mean if he was past his prime against Buster by that logic, he should've died of old age at 41

Piss poor training camp, and lack of discipline is just that. He was at the age where he could've and should've been as good as he ever was. The fact that he wasn't was due to the bolded, and nothing more. I mean hell he looked better in his fights in 1991 for instance so he suddenly snapped out of it, and was prime again for a while? Come on.

Tyson was 56 when he fought Douglas and Cooper knocked Ali thru the roof.

[margaret thatcher]

The thing I wonder, about people who yell conspiracy for Cooper-Ali and conspiracy in general, is what evidence would suffice for them to believe that it wasn't actually a conspiracy, and that the footage is correct and there was no extended break in time.

[Tony1244]

How much extended time was there, 20 seconds? Not taking anything away from Sir Henry Cooper. He is a great guy who landed a great punch. But even if that knock DOW occurred in the middle of the round, Clay would have been ok.

[margaret thatcher]

But but but, the footage was edited to cut out the 3 hour break Ali/Clay got !!