Ratings - please read before commenting - Archived

[computerrank]

Both Charlo fights on the PPV this Saturday are showing up on the schedule and on the bout page and on each fighters' pages as "no-star" fights.

Jermall Charlo vs. Sergiy Derevyanchenko
Jermell Charlo vs. Jeison Rosario

They were showing correctly maybe yesterday or the day before, but not at the moment.

The stars are correct, when I look into it. Last change for both bouts where from August 31???

[computerrank]

What's the update on updating the annual ratings?

within the next 14 days ...

Cool

I updated the Boxrec annual ratings (now including 2019) with the latest Whole-History ratings.
- female Atomweight will be added
- p4p will be added

[Manrae]

within the next 14 days ...

Cool

I updated the Boxrec annual ratings (now including 2019) with the latest Whole-History ratings.
- female Atomweight will be added
- p4p will be added

Great job

[Manrae]

within the next 14 days ...

Cool

I updated the Boxrec annual ratings (now including 2019) with the latest Whole-History ratings.
- female Atomweight will be added
- p4p will be added

Some questions about the 2019 154lb rankings...

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/BoxR ... ht_Annuals
Why are the 2019 ratings so much lower than what's actually on their individual pages?

and shouldn't Patrick Texiera be on here for 2019? https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/508315
speaking of him, why is his boxrec page rating (38.77) different than his current 154 rating (51.85)? Hurd as well...
https://boxrec.com/en/ratings?role=prob ... ddleweight

[Manrae]

Is this normal?


how to add download link in html

[computerrank]

Cool

I updated the Boxrec annual ratings (now including 2019) with the latest Whole-History ratings.
- female Atomweight will be added
- p4p will be added

Some questions about the 2019 154lb rankings...

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/BoxR ... ht_Annuals
Why are the 2019 ratings so much lower than what's actually on their individual pages?

and shouldn't Patrick Texiera be on here for 2019? https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/508315
speaking of him, why is his boxrec page rating (38.77) different than his current 154 rating (51.85)? Hurd as well...
https://boxrec.com/en/ratings?role=prob ... ddleweight

Now the annuals use the boxers' last annual bout at each division.

[Daedalus]

http://151.boxrec.com/~martin/ratings_at.php

Hello! Is there a possible way you could send me the info on this old rankings? If it's too long, maybe a cutoff of 500. Even a temporarily put up link please!

2nd question, are the following algorithm rules still in effect?

• UD, PTS, DQ, TD are rewarded with full value v=1 for 12 rounds boxed and more and a lower value related to the number of rounds boxed, clear decision factor cd=1. If the score cards are available, it may be less.
  MD, SD are rewarded with full value v=1 for 12 rounds boxed and more and a lower value related to the number of rounds boxed. Clear decision factor is limited to cd=0.5. If the score cards are available cd may be less.
  DRAW is rewarded with full value v=1 for 12 rounds boxed and more and a lower value related to the number of rounds boxed. Clear decision factor cd=0.
  If the score cards are available, the value rewarded is in direct proportion to the rounds boxed, with full value v=1 for 12 rounds boxed and more. The clear decision factor is in proportion to rounds boxed and the mean score difference per judge. cd=1 for a mean score difference per judge of 50% of the rounds boxed.

[mike1989]

So far, my predictions are missing. 95% + battles gives fighters a point reduction.

[computerrank]

http://151.boxrec.com/~martin/ratings_at.php

Hello! Is there a possible way you could send me the info on this old rankings? If it's too long, maybe a cutoff of 500. Even a temporarily put up link please!

2nd question, are the following algorithm rules still in effect?

• UD, PTS, DQ, TD are rewarded with full value v=1 for 12 rounds boxed and more and a lower value related to the number of rounds boxed, clear decision factor cd=1. If the score cards are available, it may be less.
  MD, SD are rewarded with full value v=1 for 12 rounds boxed and more and a lower value related to the number of rounds boxed. Clear decision factor is limited to cd=0.5. If the score cards are available cd may be less.
  DRAW is rewarded with full value v=1 for 12 rounds boxed and more and a lower value related to the number of rounds boxed. Clear decision factor cd=0.
  If the score cards are available, the value rewarded is in direct proportion to the rounds boxed, with full value v=1 for 12 rounds boxed and more. The clear decision factor is in proportion to rounds boxed and the mean score difference per judge. cd=1 for a mean score difference per judge of 50% of the rounds boxed.

What version do you mean with old rankings, please? And yes, v value is still valid in WHR ratings.

[computerrank]

So far, my predictions are missing. 95% + battles gives fighters a point reduction.

A point reduction compared with what, please?

[Daedalus]

http://151.boxrec.com/~martin/ratings_at.php

Hello! Is there a possible way you could send me the info on this old rankings? If it's too long, maybe a cutoff of 500. Even a temporarily put up link please!

What version do you mean with old rankings, please? And yes, v value is still valid in WHR ratings.

Something like what you did below, but for all-time.

Code: Select all

      1    1 Middleweight         348759 Saul Alvarez                   MX  1637   1651 
**    2    4 Welterweight         447121 Terence Crawford               US  1489   1134 
      3    2 Middleweight         356831 Gennady Golovkin               KZ  1422   1254 
      4    3 Lightweight          659771 Vasiliy Lomachenko             UA  1301   1163 
      5    6 Welterweight         629465 Errol Spence Jr                US  1249   992.2
**    6   16 Cruiserweight        659772 Oleksandr Usyk                 UA  972.9  495.8
      7   13 Super Featherweight  553222 Miguel Berchelt                MX  917.3  520.6
**    8   26 Super Middleweight   631178 Callum Smith                   UK  890.2  367.2
      9    7 Featherweight        374624 Leo Santa Cruz                 MX  861.0  586.2
*    10    5 Welterweight           6129 Manny Pacquiao                 PH  837.5  1025 
     11    8 Light Heavyweight    505927 Sergey Kovalev                 RU  805.4  571.2
     12   14 Welterweight         472133 Shawn Porter                   US  780.4  516.0
**   13  109 Heavyweight          489762 Andy Ruiz Jr                   US  754.9  121.0
     14   17 Middleweight         432984 Daniel Jacobs                  US  709.9  477.1
     15   21 Welterweight         429442 Danny Garcia                   US  671.7  392.0
**   16   62 Light Heavyweight    679709 Oleksandr Gvozdyk              UA  660.8  203.5
**   17   34 Middleweight         471634 Jermall Charlo                 US  657.3  300.3
**   18   47 Light Heavyweight    703924 Dmitry Bivol                   RU  625.9  250.3
     19   37 Heavyweight          468841 Deontay Wilder                 US  622.3  291.3
**   20   43 Super Middleweight   588468 Chris Eubank Jr                UK  612.9  258.8
     21   20 Featherweight        479775 Gary Allen Russell Jr          US  609.9  413.8
     22   29 Super Featherweight  643387 Gervonta Davis                 US  604.3  332.8
     23   44 Heavyweight          659461 Anthony Joshua                 UK  604.0  256.7
     24   15 Featherweight        512777 Josh Warrington                UK  600.5  503.4
     25   25 Super Flyweight      467843 Juan Francisco Estrada         MX  599.3  368.8
     26   28 Welterweight         541777 Yordenis Ugas                  CU  599.0  336.4
     27   46 Cruiserweight        514537 Mairis Briedis                 LV  587.4  251.0
     28   27 Light Welterweight   632104 Jose Carlos Ramirez            US  578.8  362.0
     29   32 Light Welterweight   611370 Regis Prograis                 US  559.5  313.5
     30   33 Light Welterweight   725709 Josh Taylor                    UK  555.4  301.8
     31   55 Heavyweight          479205 Tyson Fury                     UK  549.5  218.7
     32   57 Light Middleweight   659924 Jaime Munguia                  MX  546.7  217.7
     33   24 Super Bantamweight   602423 Emanuel Navarrete              MX  544.0  372.7
*    34    9 Bantamweight         628407 Naoya Inoue                    JP  535.6  564.8
*    35   11 Welterweight         426053 Keith Thurman                  US  519.9  538.0
     36   56 Lightweight          563751 Richard Commey                 GH  509.2  218.4
**   37  129 Super Featherweight  740705 Shavkatdzhon Rakhimov          RU  506.5  107.9
     38   30 Super Flyweight      528191 Wisaksil Wangek                TH  501.4  322.2
*    39   12 Featherweight        499601 Carl Frampton                  UK  488.0  530.1
     40   22 Super Bantamweight   542148 Rey Vargas                     MX  487.0  377.6
**   41   83 Heavyweight          318081 Alexander Povetkin             RU  483.2  150.7
     42   35 Light Middleweight   457231 Erislandy Lara                 US  482.5  294.7
     43   79 Light Middleweight   536011 Julian Williams                US  481.9  155.4
     44   36 Middleweight         468433 Demetrius Andrade              US  469.7  293.9
*    45   10 Welterweight         364679 Mikey Garcia                   US  464.2  555.1
     46   61 Super Featherweight  367450 Andrew Cancio                  US  462.9  203.5
     47   40 Light Heavyweight    503963 Eleider Alvarez                CO  461.1  281.1
*    48   18 Bantamweight         611983 Luis Nery                      MX  443.3  458.7
     49   42 Light Heavyweight    509666 Gilberto Ramirez               MX  425.4  260.7
**   50  130 Heavyweight          569964 Dillian Whyte                  UK  421.6  106.6
**   51  148 Welterweight         499476 David Avanesyan                RU  416.0  96.00
     52   76 Light Middleweight   625960 Jarrett Hurd                   US  412.6  158.0
     53   58 Super Bantamweight   549073 Daniel Roman                   US  403.9  213.3
     54   41 Light Flyweight      692967 Ken Shiro                      JP  403.2  275.9
     55   39 Bantamweight          48243 Nonito Donaire                 PH  390.0  284.1
**   56  245 Middleweight         556657 Michael Zerafa                 AU  381.0  59.41
     57   49 Welterweight         314558 Amir Khan                      UK  379.7  238.8
*    58   19 Featherweight        629933 Oscar Valdez                   MX  374.3  420.2
     59   63 Lightweight          776269 Teofimo Lopez                  US  373.1  189.6
**   60  214 Welterweight         738032 Kudratillo Abdukakhorov        UZ  370.4  67.87
     61   74 Welterweight         684792 Sergey Lipinets                RU  369.9  159.7
**   62  260 Heavyweight          498837 Jarrell Miller                 US  367.3  56.80
     63   60 Light Middleweight   468475 Jessie Vargas                  US  366.8  205.9
**   64  128 Middleweight         657422 Ryota Murata                   JP  364.5  108.7
**   65  183 Heavyweight          528949 Luis Ortiz                     CU  363.6  78.92
     66   77 Light Heavyweight    610132 Jesse Hart                     US  360.7  157.2
**   67  137 Light Middleweight   574588 Tony Harrison                  US  359.7  99.98
     68  122 Light Heavyweight    290691 Jean Pascal                    CA  358.8  111.3
     69   45 Lightweight          459640 Lee Selby                      UK  356.4  256.4
     70  125 Light Middleweight   625137 Brian Carlos Castano           AR  353.7  110.5
     71   71 Light Welterweight   432621 Viktor Postol                  UA  351.4  162.2
     72  133 Light Heavyweight    497268 Badou Jack                     SE  347.8  102.9
     73   68 Lightweight          651514 Luke Campbell                  UK  345.0  164.8
     74   51 Light Welterweight   523667 Jose Zepeda                    US  343.4  230.8
     75   59 Bantamweight         359270 Zolani Tete                    ZA  343.1  212.4
*    76   23 Super Flyweight      483786 Kazuto Ioka                    JP  342.5  377.4
     77   90 Light Heavyweight    629463 Marcus Browne                  US  342.3  143.9
**   78  197 Heavyweight          511850 Kubrat Pulev                   BG  339.4  73.55
     79   81 Lightweight          741718 Devin Haney                    US  333.3  152.7
     80   89 Middleweight         691996 Sergiy Derevyanchenko          UA  332.4  144.8
     81   98 Lightweight          371746 Anthony Crolla                 UK  331.3  134.0
*    82   38 Light Middleweight   272717 Kell Brook                     UK  330.4  284.3
     83   54 Super Featherweight  562946 Tevin Farmer                   US  327.9  219.6
     84   82 Super Featherweight  140100 Miguel Roman                   MX  322.2  151.6
     85   52 Light Middleweight   433135 Jermell Charlo                 US  318.8  226.1
     86   70 Super Middleweight   482499 Billy Joe Saunders             UK  315.6  163.3
     87   99 Featherweight        665698 Can Xu                         CN  312.9  132.3
     88  147 Light Middleweight   723287 Carlos Adames                  DO  312.4  96.13
     89   75 Welterweight         455859 Adrien Broner                  US  312.3  159.0
**   90  180 Super Middleweight   545557 John Ryder                     UK  309.1  79.87
     91   53 Flyweight            666339 Kosei Tanaka                   JP  304.7  223.3
     92   48 Super Bantamweight   492989 Guillermo Rigondeaux           CU  304.0  247.4
**   93  255 Light Welterweight   352193 Pablo Cesar Cano               MX  303.4  57.28
     94  117 Light Welterweight   570403 Maurice Hooker                 US  300.9  114.1
*    95   31 Super Flyweight      215599 Donnie Nietes                  PH  294.1  321.5
     96   86 Light Middleweight   466535 Liam Smith                     UK  292.3  148.1
**   97  195 Super Middleweight   546589 Rocky Fielding                 UK  291.1  74.11
     98   73 Minimumweight        383177 Chayaphon Moonsri              TH  288.5  159.8
     99  119 Middleweight         635000 Jeff Horn                      AU  287.6  112.2
    100   64 Super Flyweight      613018 Khalid Yafai                   UK  286.5  186.4

[computerrank]

Hello! Is there a possible way you could send me the info on this old rankings? If it's too long, maybe a cutoff of 500. Even a temporarily put up link please!

What version do you mean with old rankings, please? And yes, v value is still valid in WHR ratings.

Something like what you did below, but for all-time.

Code: Select all

      1    1 Middleweight         348759 Saul Alvarez                   MX  1637   1651 
**    2    4 Welterweight         447121 Terence Crawford               US  1489   1134 
      3    2 Middleweight         356831 Gennady Golovkin               KZ  1422   1254 

Why don't you use the all time ratings from the public pages?

[Daedalus]

What version do you mean with old rankings, please? And yes, v value is still valid in WHR ratings.

Something like what you did below, but for all-time.

Code: Select all

      1    1 Middleweight         348759 Saul Alvarez                   MX  1637   1651 
**    2    4 Welterweight         447121 Terence Crawford               US  1489   1134 
      3    2 Middleweight         356831 Gennady Golovkin               KZ  1422   1254 

Why don't you use the all time ratings from the public pages?

I did. I just want to see where high ranking ATG's who I remember were on the old list, such as Jack Johnson and Sam Langford who made top 50, but now out of the top 1000.

[Manrae]

edit: double post

[Manrae]

Some questions about the 2019 154lb rankings...

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/BoxR ... ht_Annuals
Why are the 2019 ratings so much lower than what's actually on their individual pages?

and shouldn't Patrick Texiera be on here for 2019? https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/508315
speaking of him, why is his boxrec page rating (38.77) different than his current 154 rating (51.85)? Hurd as well...
https://boxrec.com/en/ratings?role=prob ... ddleweight

Now the annuals use the boxers' last annual bout at each division.

Cool

But what about current ratings? Why are the ratings of Patrick Texiera(38.77) and Jarret Hurd(70.27) on their individual page so much different than what's on the 154lb rankings page? (51.85 & 46.54 respectively)

edit: In fact, this is also the case for: Julian Williams, Jeff Horn, Jeison Rosario, Carlos Adames, Humberto Soto...

[Daedalus]

But what about current ratings? Why are the ratings of Patrick Texiera(38.77) and Jarret Hurd(70.27) on their individual page so much different than what's on the 154lb rankings page? (51.85 & 46.54 respectively)

edit: In fact, this is also the case for: Julian Williams, Jeff Horn, Jeison Rosario, Carlos Adames, Humberto Soto...

Ratings are affected when their opponents fight again, so even if Texiera & Williams retired at the end of 2019, their ratings changed because Gallimore and other previous opponents fought in 2020. Same with Hurd (Welborn), Horn (Mueller), Rosario (Cota), Adames (Arriaza) and Soto (Vargas). Think of it as strength of schedule taking into account not only opponents' records, but also records of opponents' opponents.

[Manrae]

Computerrank... for the annual ratings

Why is Phillip Ndou rated at 140 instead of 135 for 2003?

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/BoxR ... ht_Annuals
https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/BoxR ... ht_Annuals
https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/14997

[Manrae]

Ratings are affected when their opponents fight again, so even if Texiera & Williams retired at the end of 2019, their ratings changed because Gallimore and other previous opponents fought in 2020. Same with Hurd (Welborn), Horn (Mueller), Rosario (Cota), Adames (Arriaza) and Soto (Vargas). Think of it as strength of schedule taking into account not only opponents' records, but also records of opponents' opponents.

So the ratings for a fighter's most recent bout on their individual page is incorrect?

[Daedalus]

Ratings are affected when their opponents fight again, so even if Texiera & Williams retired at the end of 2019, their ratings changed because Gallimore and other previous opponents fought in 2020. Same with Hurd (Welborn), Horn (Mueller), Rosario (Cota), Adames (Arriaza) and Soto (Vargas). Think of it as strength of schedule taking into account not only opponents' records, but also records of opponents' opponents.

So the ratings for a fighter's most recent bout on their individual page is incorrect?

Huh? No, the top most recent rating on the individual page is after their last fight. You do realize other fights happened after that. The division ratings list each boxer's current ratings for the day.

[JCS]

I have to say, even I'm a bit confused by what is displayed in the rankings versus fighter pages... the movement, etc. And I have my own rating system for MMA, so that says a lot.

For instance, I saw Casimero drop from #2 to #5 this weekend after a KO win. Was he somehow spotted some points, but then reduced after fighting a much lesser rated opponent? Did he just happen to get another penalty on the same date? I don't know.

Why do almost all boxer's current ratings seem far lower than in previous fights? Has Covid reduced activity to the point where it affects the entire landscape? Is WHR so dependent on "future" results that this is somehow treated as missing data.. and therefore, missing points? Is this a glitch in how past points are displayed?

It must be a major headache to go over the same set of questions week after week... but the WHR-based implementation is enough for folks to get a handle on, let alone all of the ancillary things. To understand WHR from a basic standpoint requires some brain power. To understand the intricacies of it, involves knowledge of some pretty advanced math... and then on top of it, all the BoxRec-specific mods. Yikes.

People would be much better off looking at the ranking pages... rather than to try and build fight-by-fight cases for fighters.

[computerrank]

I have to say, even I'm a bit confused by what is displayed in the rankings versus fighter pages... the movement, etc. And I have my own rating system for MMA, so that says a lot.

For instance, I saw Casimero drop from #2 to #5 this weekend after a KO win. Was he somehow spotted some points, but then reduced after fighting a much lesser rated opponent? Did he just happen to get another penalty on the same date? I don't know.

Why do almost all boxer's current ratings seem far lower than in previous fights? Has Covid reduced activity to the point where it affects the entire landscape? Is WHR so dependent on "future" results that this is somehow treated as missing data.. and therefore, missing points? Is this a glitch in how past points are displayed?

It must be a major headache to go over the same set of questions week after week... but the WHR-based implementation is enough for folks to get a handle on, let alone all of the ancillary things. To understand WHR from a basic standpoint requires some brain power. To understand the intricacies of it, involves knowledge of some pretty advanced math... and then on top of it, all the BoxRec-specific mods. Yikes.

People would be much better off looking at the ranking pages... rather than to try and build fight-by-fight cases for fighters.

not very obvious, I fear ...
All depends on all ... time and opponents ...

The last Boxrec bout ratings and the Boxrec current ratings are tentatively lower than the the bout ratings before, even for a boxer at his best. This is due to the fact, that the current rating is combined with more uncertainty (due to missing affirmative future results) than former results, Boxrec for this reason does not use the full WHR rating, but it uses the full WHR rating deminished by the estimated mean uncertainty.

[Manrae]

Computerrank... for the annual ratings

Why is Phillip Ndou rated at 140 instead of 135 for 2003?

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/BoxR ... ht_Annuals
https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/BoxR ... ht_Annuals
https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/14997

???

[Daedalus]

Why don't you use the all time ratings from the public pages?

So was that page's results similar to the current algorithm? I was hoping it would be using the formula for the well-publicized list from August last year, which had Mayweather, Pacquiao, Monzon as 1-2-3. If so, I would still like a copy pls.
A couple of months back, I did save the public all-time list. The top 3 were Charles, Moore, Robinson. Since then, points/rankings have moved:
Charles -120
Moore -80 Now #3
Robinson -80 Now #4
Mayweather +360. Moved from #4 to #2
Pacquiao +230. Moved from #10 to #5
Ironically, at this rate, May-Pac will end up 1-2 again sometime next year, even without fighting.

[computerrank]

Computerrank... for the annual ratings

Why is Phillip Ndou rated at 140 instead of 135 for 2003?

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/BoxR ... ht_Annuals
https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/BoxR ... ht_Annuals
https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/14997

???

I now changed the selection to last annual bout division, e.g. Lightweight for Ndou in 2003 (before selection was division with highest last annual bout, e.g. Light Welterweight for Ndou in 2003).

[computerrank]

So was that page's results similar to the current algorithm? I was hoping it would be using the formula for the well-publicized list from August last year, which had Mayweather, Pacquiao, Monzon as 1-2-3. If so, I would still like a copy pls.
A couple of months back, I did save the public all-time list. The top 3 were Charles, Moore, Robinson. Since then, points/rankings have moved:
Charles -120
Moore -80 Now #3
Robinson -80 Now #4
Mayweather +360. Moved from #4 to #2
Pacquiao +230. Moved from #10 to #5
Ironically, at this rate, May-Pac will end up 1-2 again sometime next year, even without fighting.

Since August last year the database structure changed and the is no public access to the test server any longer for security reasons. So there is no chance to provide an all-time-ratings procedure with the former release.